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So why does everyone hate smogon?

#51Mewtwo_soulPosted 4/27/2013 4:22:38 PM
BlazingRain posted...
Is anyone else laughing at this guy so viciously defending Smogon that he can't see himself doing everything he's trying to criticize others for?

And what weighted stats? Charizard is used a lot everywhere. Stop acting like it isn't overused and just accept that the tiers are biased.


Something tells me you haven't actually seen the usage charts. Charizard has a small usage ratio (or percentage) outside of Nu, and RU. (or the other specific niche tiers, like RBYGSC specific tiers/etc.)

In general. On that note, no tier in any game has ever been perfect, trying to say Smogon isn't trying to create any balance is as blind as one can be. Even then harping on why combos are banned over general mechanics, abilities, or moves is because the move by itself may not be broken, but with other factors can end up as such, which there in is no reason for a banning just because of such a thing.
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Only insecure and ignorant people try to debase someone online based on their username.
#52GiftedACIIIPosted 4/27/2013 4:27:26 PM
BlazingRain posted...
Is anyone else laughing at this guy so viciously defending Smogon that he can't see himself doing everything he's trying to criticize others for?

And what weighted stats? Charizard is used a lot everywhere. Stop acting like it isn't overused and just accept that the tiers are biased.


http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3478570

Yeah, do some research for once. You must not've done well in school. And actually, you're the minority on this one as can be seen when you whined how "everybody was attacking the haters despite asking for it". You're just proving to me more that smogon haters are all ignorant and hypocritical. This also asked arguments yet all you're doing is trying to make a strawman and dodge points.
#53Rat_a_tatPosted 4/27/2013 4:32:41 PM
People hate Smogon because it goes against one of the key principles of the franchise - that any Pokemon or strategy can be effective if you just try hard enough. It's the very hard sober "Yin" to the happy, hippy-esque "Yang" that everything else in the series presents.

Games:
Karen: "Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled Trainers should try to win with the Pokémon they love best."

Anime:
Paul "A pathetic trainer and his weak Pokemon..."
Ash: "WHATEVA, I do what I want!" *wins* [paraphrased]

Smogon:
"Yeah, no. If you really want to use your crap Pokemon, make sure you only play in the crap league with all the other crap that's crap. Using the power of math and simulators we've concluded that this handful of 'mons up here are the best. I'd give you some graphs and flowcharts, but suffice to say you should just use these guys along with the movesets we've prepared and forget about your Charizard.

Oh wait, you wanna play "doubles"? What's that? Sounds kinda like Double Team. That moves banned y'know. Cuz we said so. Trust us, we're experts in things that aren't fair."
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"Official" furry liaison to GameFAQs.
#54Mewtwo_soulPosted 4/27/2013 4:35:42 PM
Rat_a_tat posted...
People hate Smogon because it goes against one of the key principles of the franchise - that any Pokemon or strategy can be effective if you just try hard enough. It's the very hard sober "Yin" to the happy, hippy-esque "Yang" that everything else in the series presents.

Games:
Karen: "Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled Trainers should try to win with the Pokémon they love best."

Anime:
Paul "A pathetic trainer and his weak Pokemon..."
Ash: "WHATEVA, I do what I want!" *wins* [paraphrased]

Smogon:
"Yeah, no. If you really want to use your crap Pokemon, make sure you only play in the crap league with all the other crap that's crap. Using the power of math and simulators we've concluded that this handful of 'mons up here are the best. I'd give you some graphs and flowcharts, but suffice to say you should just use these guys along with the movesets we've prepared and forget about your Charizard.

Oh wait, you wanna play "doubles"? What's that? Sounds kinda like Double Team. That moves banned y'know. Cuz we said so. Trust us, we're experts in things that aren't fair."


The Pokemon games and anime are referencing in game which you are purposely allowed to use whatever you want and easily prevail doing so.

That's a fact, competitive is a whole different account, and unless you want Double team to be the only thing used which would make 99% of the battles just Double Team on Mewtwo or Arceus you should get used to that fact.

Removing Smogon would only make less Pokemon usable, and a whole lot more inefficient, actually even without Smogon Pokemon like Magikarp are still complete crap.

However, some gifted people use them in teams in RU/UU/OU/etc. and still prevail. Tiers don't prevent usage, they only make sure one Poemon isn't used in every battle.
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Only insecure and ignorant people try to debase someone online based on their username.
#55Arne83Posted 4/27/2013 4:37:55 PM
Considering I know next to nothing about it... I have to say I'm mostly indifferent towards smogon.
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More of a Pokemon fan than TherianReturns will ever be.
#56GiftedACIIIPosted 4/27/2013 4:44:41 PM
Rat_a_tat posted...
People hate Smogon because it goes against one of the key principles of the franchise - that any Pokemon or strategy can be effective if you just try hard enough. It's the very hard sober "Yin" to the happy, hippy-esque "Yang" that everything else in the series presents.

Games:
Karen: "Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled Trainers should try to win with the Pokémon they love best."

Anime:
Paul "A pathetic trainer and his weak Pokemon..."
Ash: "WHATEVA, I do what I want!" *wins* [paraphrased]

Smogon:
"Yeah, no. If you really want to use your crap Pokemon, make sure you only play in the crap league with all the other crap that's crap. Using the power of math and simulators we've concluded that this handful of 'mons up here are the best. I'd give you some graphs and flowcharts, but suffice to say you should just use these guys along with the movesets we've prepared and forget about your Charizard.

Oh wait, you wanna play "doubles"? What's that? Sounds kinda like Double Team. That moves banned y'know. Cuz we said so. Trust us, we're experts in things that aren't fair."


I'm taking it you haven't seen the people criticize Gamefreak for breaking their own mottos with their mechanics. If they really wanted to make it that they wouldn't have made Pokemon an RPG, a system where everything is numbers. That message is also for their children target audience. The older players know more about that.
#57BlazingRainPosted 4/27/2013 4:47:39 PM
GiftedACIII posted...
BlazingRain posted...
Is anyone else laughing at this guy so viciously defending Smogon that he can't see himself doing everything he's trying to criticize others for?

And what weighted stats? Charizard is used a lot everywhere. Stop acting like it isn't overused and just accept that the tiers are biased.


http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3478570

Yeah, do some research for once. You must not've done well in school. And actually, you're the minority on this one as can be seen when you whined how "everybody was attacking the haters despite asking for it". You're just proving to me more that smogon haters are all ignorant and hypocritical. This also asked arguments yet all you're doing is trying to make a strawman and dodge points.


Wow this guy is so bad I feel sorry for him.

He literally attacked me for making a generalization and then claims that I'm proving to him that all "Smogon haters" are ignorant and hypocritical.
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La Illaha Illa Allah, Muhammad Rasul Allah
#58Mewtwo_soulPosted 4/27/2013 4:50:36 PM
I think the most hilarious thing is that people think Smogon is what limits their favorite Pokemon.

Sorry bud, your crappy Magikarp is still crappy, with or without tiers. Could you use it without Smogon, sure. Would the results truly be any different? Nope.


Same as the usage of most ubers.

Remove tiers and every match is something along the lines of :

Arceus, Kyogre, (Rayquaza has increased in usage IIRC in Ubers), and three top tier fillers.

Sure some people will run lower tier Pokemon, and will get squashed unless they have some clever uses for said Pokemon. (same as it is currently)

There truly is no difference, other than every match is not DT spam, and I don't have to face Arceus, Kyogre and the other three fillers everytime I want to use Vanilluxe in NU/RU, or that I can actually make use of my Death Gambit team in UU/OU.
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Only insecure and ignorant people try to debase someone online based on their username.
#59GiftedACIIIPosted 4/27/2013 4:51:15 PM
BlazingRain posted...
GiftedACIII posted...
BlazingRain posted...
Is anyone else laughing at this guy so viciously defending Smogon that he can't see himself doing everything he's trying to criticize others for?

And what weighted stats? Charizard is used a lot everywhere. Stop acting like it isn't overused and just accept that the tiers are biased.


http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3478570

Yeah, do some research for once. You must not've done well in school. And actually, you're the minority on this one as can be seen when you whined how "everybody was attacking the haters despite asking for it". You're just proving to me more that smogon haters are all ignorant and hypocritical. This also asked arguments yet all you're doing is trying to make a strawman and dodge points.


Wow this guy is so bad I feel sorry for him.

He literally attacked me for making a generalization and then claims that I'm proving to him that all "Smogon haters" are ignorant and hypocritical.


I'll change that. What I meant was ignorant misconceptions, not generalizations because geneneralizations imply that it's true. But yes continue to show that you're bad at arguments and can only resort to trolling now.
#60BlazingRainPosted 4/27/2013 4:55:51 PM
GiftedACIII posted...
BlazingRain posted...
GiftedACIII posted...
BlazingRain posted...
Is anyone else laughing at this guy so viciously defending Smogon that he can't see himself doing everything he's trying to criticize others for?

And what weighted stats? Charizard is used a lot everywhere. Stop acting like it isn't overused and just accept that the tiers are biased.


http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3478570

Yeah, do some research for once. You must not've done well in school. And actually, you're the minority on this one as can be seen when you whined how "everybody was attacking the haters despite asking for it". You're just proving to me more that smogon haters are all ignorant and hypocritical. This also asked arguments yet all you're doing is trying to make a strawman and dodge points.


Wow this guy is so bad I feel sorry for him.

He literally attacked me for making a generalization and then claims that I'm proving to him that all "Smogon haters" are ignorant and hypocritical.


I'll change that. What I meant was ignorant misconceptions, not generalizations because geneneralizations imply that it's true. But yes continue to show that you're bad at arguments and can only resort to trolling now.


Whatever dude. If you seriously think I'm gonna waste my time arguing with someone like you, or that by not arguing with you I'm conceding something, you again prove nothing other than you having social issues that you should attend to.
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La Illaha Illa Allah, Muhammad Rasul Allah