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If Stealth Rock was removed this gen, or banned from competitive batting..

#31PK_GamingPosted 5/6/2013 2:28:25 PM
iKhanic posted...
KillerMechanoid posted...
Happy, of course. Even happier if Charizard still stays in NU, due to more pokemon that outclass him.


I can only think of one fire type that outclasses Charizard w/o SR present (aside from ubers if course), and that's Volcarona.

Moltres
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#32themagicpainmanPosted 5/6/2013 2:31:15 PM
Ah yes, can't forget him.
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#33smokinace829Posted 5/6/2013 2:47:52 PM
PK_Gaming posted...
iKhanic posted...
KillerMechanoid posted...
Happy, of course. Even happier if Charizard still stays in NU, due to more pokemon that outclass him.


I can only think of one fire type that outclasses Charizard w/o SR present (aside from ubers if course), and that's Volcarona.

Moltres


Blaziken...
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#34pokemonfreak97Posted 5/6/2013 2:58:36 PM
smokinace829 posted...
PK_Gaming posted...
iKhanic posted...
KillerMechanoid posted...
Happy, of course. Even happier if Charizard still stays in NU, due to more pokemon that outclass him.


I can only think of one fire type that outclasses Charizard w/o SR present (aside from ubers if course), and that's Volcarona.

Moltres


Blaziken...


He did say aside from Ubers.

I think it would be a major change. All Pokémon that are Fire/Bug/Ice/Flying-type see a usage jump, Pokémon that are Steel/Fighting/Ground-type see a (smaller) dip in usage, use of Magic Bounce drops (but not significantly), Rapid Spin returns to being the niche move (though still useful) it was in Gens II and III, sun/hail teams become equal to rain teams because they no longer have this critical weakness, Deoxys-S sits in a corner and weeps.
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#35CakeOfLiesPosted 5/6/2013 3:03:59 PM
Sashes, Sturdy, Multiscale, Eruption, Water Spout, and any strategy that involves boosting Attack or whatever over a few turns ALL become far more useful than they are now.

I, too, am also tired of seeing "...after Stealth Rock damage" too.

I'd be ecstatic.
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#36Faust_8Posted 5/6/2013 3:55:38 PM
iKhanic posted...
Hierarchy225 posted...
Great_Reapette posted...
YEAH CHARlZARD


Sorry to burst your bubble, but Charizard still wouldn't be that good. Might be bumped up to RU though.

Volcarona would probably end up being used in Ubers.


You vastly underestimate the role of stealth rock.

Charizard was BL before Stealth Rock came into existence. It got even better with Solar Power, but that has the same problem belly drum did: It sucks huge amounts of HP from a poke that loses half it health from switching in.


BL in the past doesn't mean BL now just because SR is gone. After all, Snorlax was OU a LOT in the past. Is he now? No, because new Pokemon released mean he has more threats to deal with.

Charizard wouldn't be BL because of the slew of strong Pokemon that he has to deal with now that he didn't have to back when he was BL.

Volcarona proves that it's not JUST a 4x weakness to SR that pulls you down. Volcarona is so good that even with that it can compete as long as you can deal with SR, but Charizard stats, movepool, and Abilities are the main reason it is where it is. SR is just the final nail in the coffin.

Even with SR out of the picture, there are plenty of Pokemon that can hit harder and faster than Charizard or have better ways of boosting themselves. No SR just means Charizard becomes RU or maybe UU. But to say he's in the BL territory again is just ignoring all the other changes to the metagame. Like, you know, Cloyster, Terrakion, Keldeo, as well as any that compete for his slot on the team like Garchomp, Hydreigon, Latios...
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#37Dark Young LinkPosted 5/6/2013 3:59:24 PM
All the more reason to buy Pokemon X/Y on the first day.
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#38CharizardFirePosted 5/6/2013 4:49:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs
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#39iKhanicPosted 5/6/2013 8:07:37 PM
Faust_8 posted...
iKhanic posted...
Hierarchy225 posted...
Great_Reapette posted...
YEAH CHARlZARD


Sorry to burst your bubble, but Charizard still wouldn't be that good. Might be bumped up to RU though.

Volcarona would probably end up being used in Ubers.


You vastly underestimate the role of stealth rock.

Charizard was BL before Stealth Rock came into existence. It got even better with Solar Power, but that has the same problem belly drum did: It sucks huge amounts of HP from a poke that loses half it health from switching in.


BL in the past doesn't mean BL now just because SR is gone. After all, Snorlax was OU a LOT in the past. Is he now? No, because new Pokemon released mean he has more threats to deal with.

Charizard wouldn't be BL because of the slew of strong Pokemon that he has to deal with now that he didn't have to back when he was BL.

Volcarona proves that it's not JUST a 4x weakness to SR that pulls you down. Volcarona is so good that even with that it can compete as long as you can deal with SR, but Charizard stats, movepool, and Abilities are the main reason it is where it is. SR is just the final nail in the coffin.

Even with SR out of the picture, there are plenty of Pokemon that can hit harder and faster than Charizard or have better ways of boosting themselves. No SR just means Charizard becomes RU or maybe UU. But to say he's in the BL territory again is just ignoring all the other changes to the metagame. Like, you know, Cloyster, Terrakion, Keldeo, as well as any that compete for his slot on the team like Garchomp, Hydreigon, Latios...


I didn't say he'll be BL. IMO it'd probably be UU and viable in OU. What I'm saying is Charizard is guaranteed to move up significantly. Stealth Rock hurts Charizard more than it does ANY other pokemon in the game, because no other 4x stealth rock weak pokemon's main niches cause it to lose HP as fast as Charizard.

I've used Charizard in OU. While it's not the bulkiest thing in the world, It usually can take a hit. But when it loses 50% health on switch-in, it can't, and on top of that, has it's lifespan halved with the loss in health to Solar Power. But if it manages to switch in cleanly, it can annihilate other teams. It can actually 2HKO a Jellicent with Fire Blast.

Volcarona is a pokemon that should be in Ubers, the only reason it's not IS it's 4x weakness, so it does prove that it's just a 4X weakness that holds you down.
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#40EstheimasterPosted 5/6/2013 8:23:50 PM
I ran a Solar Power Charizard back in the days of BW's Dream World tier's inception, and he ripped teams to shreds. The thing is, they hadn't been prepared with good SR users and were still testing ideas. This makes me think that if SR was banned, Charizard would at least have a Sun Team niche.
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