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Anyone want a secondary starter trio?

#21Toy_BoxPosted 6/3/2013 6:08:27 AM
I have played through Unova 5 times since the release of Black/White (twice on White, twice on Black 2, once on White 2) and I have to say the starters are the most underwhelming of all the starters I've ever used. My first run I used Snivy and he was pretty cool until you get to a point where he doesn't learn any more physical moves and tries to go in a mixed direction with speed and defence as a focus. I did keep Serperior on to the end, though. Second was on Black 2 in Japanese and I used Tepig. I kept him on to the end as well and he was more useable than Serperior but still lacked that oomph that you would get using a Darmanitan or another fire-type found in the region. In White 2 I used Oshawott to complete the trio and I dropped him while he was a Dewott. There are so many great water-types and other pokemon in Unova that I just couldn't justify keeping him on any longer. I have always kept the starter in my party but I suppose I was just at a point where I couldn't deal with the stats and movepools that were outdone by wild pokemon. In my replays through Black 2 and White I chose Oshawott again and got it to a Samurott and I used Tepig in Black 2 I chose Tepig again but dropped it right away for more desirable pokemon.

I know that's a huge wall of text but there is a point!

It's not that I dislike the unova starters. I honestly adore the designs of Serperior and Emboar and I think Samurott was a cool concept but reminded me of that one walrus digimon from s01 (no I'm not saying pokemon are designed like digimon any more. That was just my gut feeling despite loving Oshawott). They're probably fine as far as stats go, but the thing is that Unova is a goldmine for brilliant pokemon with crazy stats. In BW you can get so many strong and fun pokemon in the desert area that just outclass any starter you choose. Darumaka, Scraggy, Sandile, Sigilyph, (Braviary if you're playing White 2), and Yamask are all really good for the story and have niches that make them suit gym/trainer battles better than the starters. I feel like this was never a thing in previous generations. In Gen 4 you had 3 starters that became wrecking machines. Heck, Turtwig gets curse before it even evolves and Empoleon is possibly the best type-combination of any starter plus it has the capacity to deal damage fairly well. There were definitely good pokemon in Sinnoh but there was always a case for keeping your Sinnoh starter because they put in their share of the work and I just never felt that my Unova starter did.

And that is why I didn't care for the fifth gen starters.


Oh this thread is about the monkeys? They were okay but I never used any of them. I remember in my first ever run in White I answered that dude's question in Castelia "wrong" and didn't get the stone to evolve my respective monkey so I just dropped it from my party. I was going to use the grass on in my latest White run but there are so many good grass pokemon right after the first gym that I couldn't justify keeping the monkey.

I would totally be into them doing a secondary trio again.
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#22mralpha543Posted 6/3/2013 6:09:27 AM
Toy_Box posted...
I have played through Unova 5 times since the release of Black/White (twice on White, twice on Black 2, once on White 2) and I have to say the starters are the most underwhelming of all the starters I've ever used. My first run I used Snivy and he was pretty cool until you get to a point where he doesn't learn any more physical moves and tries to go in a mixed direction with speed and defence as a focus. I did keep Serperior on to the end, though. Second was on Black 2 in Japanese and I used Tepig. I kept him on to the end as well and he was more useable than Serperior but still lacked that oomph that you would get using a Darmanitan or another fire-type found in the region. In White 2 I used Oshawott to complete the trio and I dropped him while he was a Dewott. There are so many great water-types and other pokemon in Unova that I just couldn't justify keeping him on any longer. I have always kept the starter in my party but I suppose I was just at a point where I couldn't deal with the stats and movepools that were outdone by wild pokemon. In my replays through Black 2 and White I chose Oshawott again and got it to a Samurott and I used Tepig in Black 2 I chose Tepig again but dropped it right away for more desirable pokemon.

I know that's a huge wall of text but there is a point!

It's not that I dislike the unova starters. I honestly adore the designs of Serperior and Emboar and I think Samurott was a cool concept but reminded me of that one walrus digimon from s01 (no I'm not saying pokemon are designed like digimon any more. That was just my gut feeling despite loving Oshawott). They're probably fine as far as stats go, but the thing is that Unova is a goldmine for brilliant pokemon with crazy stats. In BW you can get so many strong and fun pokemon in the desert area that just outclass any starter you choose. Darumaka, Scraggy, Sandile, Sigilyph, (Braviary if you're playing White 2), and Yamask are all really good for the story and have niches that make them suit gym/trainer battles better than the starters. I feel like this was never a thing in previous generations. In Gen 4 you had 3 starters that became wrecking machines. Heck, Turtwig gets curse before it even evolves and Empoleon is possibly the best type-combination of any starter plus it has the capacity to deal damage fairly well. There were definitely good pokemon in Sinnoh but there was always a case for keeping your Sinnoh starter because they put in their share of the work and I just never felt that my Unova starter did.

And that is why I didn't care for the fifth gen starters.


Oh this thread is about the monkeys? They were okay but I never used any of them. I remember in my first ever run in White I answered that dude's question in Castelia "wrong" and didn't get the stone to evolve my respective monkey so I just dropped it from my party. I was going to use the grass on in my latest White run but there are so many good grass pokemon right after the first gym that I couldn't justify keeping the monkey.

I would totally be into them doing a secondary trio again.


TL;DR
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#23fuzi11Posted 6/3/2013 6:13:52 AM
Enferolunos posted...
fuzi11 posted...
Enferolunos posted...
fuzi11 posted...
Enferolunos posted...
Like the monkeys, if course. But instead of being really similar and kind of underdeveloped, they could put more work in, and maybe have a different elemental triangle.
I think it could be cool.


the monkeys are terrible and I hated the fact they were shoved in our faces constantly


What about them did you hate?


their design and that they were shoved in our faces all the time


Hating their design is no reason to not want another secondary starter trio. And how were they shoved in our face all the time?


All your rivals had at least one of them, the first gym had them, It feels like they appear in every of those rare triple fights, one of the designers/secret champions uses them, they appear quite a lot in those random trainer battles, even before they were hyped and promoted all the time.
#24Toy_BoxPosted 6/3/2013 6:15:16 AM
From: mralpha543
Toy_Box posted...
things


TL;DR

If you don't have time in your busy schedule to read what I have to say, then don't respond. Also you shouldn't quote large bodies of text as it encumbers the thread.

Thanks.
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#25ReloadPsiPosted 6/3/2013 7:23:44 AM
fuzi11 posted...
Enferolunos posted...
Like the monkeys, if course. But instead of being really similar and kind of underdeveloped, they could put more work in, and maybe have a different elemental triangle.
I think it could be cool.


the monkeys are terrible and I hated the fact they were shoved in our faces constantly


Really? I boxed mine and promptly forgot about it.
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#26paiprPosted 6/3/2013 7:27:43 AM
emboar is ok, wish he wasnt standing and looked more like an epic quadrupedal fire pig, samurott is an ok design, just not what should have happened.

more on topic though, i liked the monkeys, although the designs of the fire and water were not as great as the grass imo, but i also love grass types. stat wise they could be a bit better.

that said id love another trio like this, same typing, or another triangle of sorts. more monkeys would be ok, although a cat trio would be fun. just make them a little more usable and we are good.
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#27master_of_roflPosted 6/3/2013 2:44:38 PM
TherianReturns posted...
master_of_rofl posted...
TherianReturns posted...
george15gamer posted...
I rather them focus on the main starters first so disasters like emboar never happen again.


How is he a disaster? because he doesn't live up to the expectations of your genwunner self?


Hes a disaster because hes the third fire/fighting starter we've had and hes weaker then the first 2.


Not only does Emboar have a wider movepool and more HP, he also has the highest attack stat among the fire starters. Lol.


And the lowest Speed and Defense both physical and special. If you die before you can even get an attack off you might well have no Attack at all. Further more type coverage is worse then the other fire starters.
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#28taa20Posted 6/3/2013 3:45:33 PM(edited)
I liked the monkeys. They were a little frail, but base 98 attack stats and 101 speed appealed to me more than the speed OR offense starters. I would not mind if they did another secondary/complimentary trio again. If they would have have been 5 BST better across the board, they would have had far greater appeal (and, equal BST to the starters at 528... which means their stats were probably _very_ deliberate... kinda decent, but inferior to the starters).

The perk of the starters were the far more diverse movepools, but even in light of that, I would have taken all 3 monkeys over all 3 starters.
#29Ubergeneral3Posted 6/3/2013 5:46:13 PM
People need to cut the gen 5 starters some slack.

I think people just had too high expectations of them after gen 4 and when they weren't exactly what they wanted they cried.

In game emboar is fine. he a tanky with high attack. Competivly he's lacking, But then again, Infernape pretty much has everything it ever needs for OU, Any fire pokemon to ever exist isn't going to be as good as infernape. Once again, this is why I think gen 4 set the standards too high.

Samerwatt, Ok in game they decided to draw it on all fours. I think that was a mistake, sicne when it fights it actully stands up on two legs, takes a blade out and fights with a sword, Gamefreak needs to rework his design and make him stand up two legs,

Serperior, Contrary Serperior is really good, However it has no movepool. This might change, Her stats are actully pretty good, so with good moves, I could see her having a nitche in OU

bottomline. Maybe Emboar needs to have his base stats adjusted, More tankyness? Also keep in mind that fighting/fire is a good type combo, It's just that infernape makes everyone not named infernape look bad.

Samerott could use a slight stat adjustment too, I think he's a bit worse than blastoise and gator, but not by much.

TL;DR
they aren't that bad. Stop QQing.
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#30Dark_ZoroarkPosted 6/3/2013 5:54:40 PM
TherianReturns posted...
george15gamer posted...
I rather them focus on the main starters first so disasters like emboar never happen again.


How is he a disaster? because he doesn't live up to the expectations of your genwunner self?


Good good, let the hatred flow through you!
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