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Since some of the leaks in Pokebeach were true...

#21NightinanglePosted 6/13/2013 9:58:15 PM
Well a lot was true but some may have been fan demand. When does pokemon actually do something we all wanted it to? ( starter types I mean)
He may have put fake stuff to throw is off.
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#22GangstaLizard95Posted 6/13/2013 10:02:37 PM
Didn't someone in 4chan said that Hiro claimed that the Starter's final evo's types are going to be Grass/Rock, Fire/Normal and Water/Dark?
#23Hierarchy225Posted 6/13/2013 10:05:00 PM(edited)
Nightinangle posted...
Well a lot was true but some may have been fan demand.


Yeah, I doubt that. Sky Battles were hardly in demand.
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#24jayman7Posted 6/14/2013 12:14:11 AM(edited)
Sad_Face posted...
From: jayman7 | #013
What rules did I make up? I described Corrosion exactly the way he did.


You literally said that Corrosion and Psystrike were not comparable because Psystrike uses a variable component and Corrosion uses a static component. And your argument for why they can't be compared was total bullshivoks. You just said Corrosion is not strategic but Psystrike was, but they employ the exact same strategy. Psystrike, if your opponent has a much higher Special Defense than Defense, hit with Psystrike rather than Psychic. For Corrosion on a pokemon whose a mono Poison type, If your opponent happens to be Resistant/Immune against Poison but is Neutral to the rest of your attacks, hit with Corrosion for the extra STAB (assuming the output damage is the most). Literally the same strategy! Sure you can mix in some mind games in there, but the strategy is fundamentally the same. You saying that "they don't work because one's based on variables, other's static" is the literally you making excuses or making up rules to say they don't work.


Wall of text much?

Given the premises, Corrosion against another Poison move is not a valid comparison, because Corrosion is not a Poison-type move. It's a Fire-type move that the wrong type gets STAB from. The proper comparison is with Flamethrower, not any Poison move. Just because Poison-types don't get STAB from Flamethrower doesn't mean they can't learn it, you know.

You could make the argument that my own previous argument should have been Psystrike vs. Psycho Cut or Zen Headbutt, but that involves EV splitting if the Pokemon prefers its special attacks (and since Psystrike is Mewtwo-only, it does). No EV splitting issue with false STAB, because STAB is, again, all-or-nothing.

Anyway, again, Poison types themselves are the only Pokemon who care. Fire-types want nothing to do with Corrosion, and everything else considers them equal (presuming they're both 95 power and we ignore Burns). Almost nothing has equal Attack and Special Attack (especially not when Nature, IVs, and EVs come into play), which is where the Psyshock (since Psystrike is Mewtwo-only) issue comes in. Even Pokemon of the same species might not agree on which one is the superior option between Psyshock and a physical Psychic move.
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#25jayman7Posted 6/14/2013 12:01:43 AM
GangstaLizard95 posted...
Didn't someone in 4chan said that Hiro claimed that the Starter's final evo's types are going to be Grass/Rock, Fire/Normal and Water/Dark?


Not happening. Grass/Rock isn't weak to Fire or Normal. (Blah blah Empoleon blah. It was weak to Ground.)
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#26ArabianPenguinsPosted 6/14/2013 12:05:37 AM
What Pokebeach leaks?
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#27jayman7Posted 6/14/2013 12:11:45 AM
ArabianPenguins posted...
What Pokebeach leaks?


Not been hanging out on the boards, have we?

http://pokebeach.com/2013/05/supposed-pokemon-x-and-y-insider-information

It correctly guessed Fairy-type and its super-effectiveness against Dragon, the first gym being Bug, and Sky Battles. Also, talks at E3 indicated that there will, in fact, be more transparency regarding IVs and EVs.

It was closely followed by

http://pokebeach.com/2013/05/panchum-fletching-gogoat-helioptile-follow-up-to-insiders-pokemon-x-y-information

Which (other than a typo in Pancham's name) is completely spot on.

(There was a third set, but it's less trustworthy; indications are that at least part of the third set was made up to throw off GameFreak. It already got something wrong anyway.)
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#28GoldenGalaxyPosted 6/14/2013 12:23:35 AM(edited)
Sad_Face posted...
You just said Corrosion is not strategic but Psystrike was, but they employ the exact same strategy. Psystrike, if your opponent has a much higher Special Defense than Defense, hit with Psystrike rather than Psychic. For Corrosion on a pokemon whose a mono Poison type, If your opponent happens to be Resistant/Immune against Poison but is Neutral to the rest of your attacks, hit with Corrosion for the extra STAB (assuming the output damage is the most). Literally the same strategy!

No, no. jayman has a valid point.

Psystrike allows you to do something you couldn't do otherwise. (Apply special attack to defense)

Corrosion does not. On a poison type pokemon, it's no different to having a fire type move of x power. On a non-poison type pokemon, it's also no different to having a fire type move of y power. There is no difference to battle strategy; only move diversity outside of battle. It is largely redundant.
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#29wind64aPosted 6/14/2013 12:33:17 AM
jayman7 posted...
GTomahawk posted...
I still think it'd be easiest to just not make it stack.

Gives STAB to both types and hits anything weak to either type, but doesn't give double stab and never goes higher than x4 damage.


And this is where we start to get gamebreaky. Oh, sure, you're not going over 4x damage, so it's not as bad as just stacking the multipliers indiscriminately. But you can create an offensive move that nothing in the game - or very few things - are resistant to pretty easily. Once you have that, either it sucks because it has low power in an attempt at balance, or it becomes the only offensive move you'll ever need.

And this one has its own problems. You're in a double battle. One opponent as Storm Drain. One has Lightningrod. Your move is Water/Electric. What happens?


Since it's treated as an Electric move by the opponent(s), wouldn't it simply be drawn to Lightningrod?
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#30Zero97Posted 6/14/2013 12:58:41 AM
jayman7 posted...
Sadly, given I think it's an awful idea.

Well, if it's two hits, one of each type, that'd be okay. Unnecessary but okay.

But no one has come up with any other method of implementing them that wasn't either ridiculously pointless, needlessly complex, or hideously overpowered.

Though given this:

http://www.pokemonxy.com/_ui/img/_en/screenshots/may_p5_4.jpg

I'm not sure where the "second type" plate would even appear.


It could be an "effect" of an attack, like secret sword :D
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