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How do you play Pokemon, and do you support backwards compatibility?

#21ClassyOldHat(Topic Creator)Posted 6/15/2013 11:28:28 PM
bd43 posted...
If it's the same as in Gen V, then they aren't losing as much as they believe.

Take the Omaster Story. It's cool from a design standpoint. And some of these things are time consuming projects. But beating multiple elite 4s? Nice job with your level 100s. That's not interesting to me. Really, it's not much lost unless you can change the process.


So disregard all sentimentally because YOU don't find it interesting? Or even on just a gameplay level, disregard the time saved by not having to EV train and level grind the same Pokemon each game (Which incidentally, is NOT different enough from game to game to consider it part of the "fresh experience." Raising a charizard in FireRed Postgame is the same as raising a Charizard in Black 2 postgame.)?

Otherwise, the games have so many options for adding pokemon and completing a dex that Gamefreaks could probably do it with 2 games. Anyone who has or came close to dex completion likely has used online for some. And I know it's become tainted, but the game could even make use of side apps or dlc for a few pokes.


...I'm having a really hard time following you... Each sentence there makes sense grammatically, and could be understood on it's own, but together, they mesh into a confusing mess. The game could be made so all pokemon could be captured in two games... So Gamfreak should make players rely on online trading instead of two games... and also use apps and side games and DLC... What does this have to do with a blanket punishment on all Pokemon fans just to slightly inconvenience hackers, again?

Also, changing gears for a moment; I initially ignored your comment on Platinum and HG/SS being "lifeless" because they "Lacked stakes" because it is technically an opinion, not a fact. But then, on thinking about it, I realized how counter to your point that was: while I certainly don't see them as "lifeless" FR/LG and Emerald had no stakes, as far as development was concerned. GF barely needed to throw anything in, because they knew that if you wanted to complete the Pokedex, you HAD to get these games. There was no other way, without cheating.

Platinum and HG/SS, on the other hand, had high stakes development wise for the exact reasons you think they didn't: they weren't holding any Pokemon hostage, so they had to sell themselves on unique features, thus Diamond and Pearl's many, many, MANY pacing problems were addressed, Shinnoh's regional Pokedex became much more diverse and vibrant compared to DP's, HGSS gave us the fun Pokemon following features, IV passing, extra egg moves, the Pokethlon, and the best touch screen interface of any pokemon game to this very day.

So yeah, your opinion is flat out wrong.
#22bd43Posted 6/16/2013 12:15:58 AM
ClassyOldHat posted...
So disregard all sentimentally because YOU don't find it interesting? Or even on just a gameplay level, disregard the time saved by not having to EV train and level grind the same Pokemon each game (Which incidentally, is NOT different enough from game to game to consider it part of the "fresh experience." Raising a charizard in FireRed Postgame is the same as raising a Charizard in Black 2 postgame.)?

...I'm having a really hard time following you... Each sentence there makes sense grammatically, and could be understood on it's own, but together, they mesh into a confusing mess. The game could be made so all pokemon could be captured in two games... So Gamfreak should make players rely on online trading instead of two games... and also use apps and side games and DLC... What does this have to do with a blanket punishment on all Pokemon fans just to slightly inconvenience hackers, again?

Also, changing gears for a moment; I initially ignored your comment on Platinum and HG/SS being "lifeless" because they "Lacked stakes" because it is technically an opinion, not a fact. But then, on thinking about it, I realized how counter to your point that was: while I certainly don't see them as "lifeless" FR/LG and Emerald had no stakes, as far as development was concerned. GF barely needed to throw anything in, because they knew that if you wanted to complete the Pokedex, you HAD to get these games. There was no other way, without cheating.

Platinum and HG/SS, on the other hand, had high stakes development wise for the exact reasons you think they didn't: they weren't holding any Pokemon hostage, so they had to sell themselves on unique features, thus Diamond and Pearl's many, many, MANY pacing problems were addressed, Shinnoh's regional Pokedex became much more diverse and vibrant compared to DP's, HGSS gave us the fun Pokemon following features, IV passing, extra egg moves, the Pokethlon, and the best touch screen interface of any pokemon game to this very day.

So yeah, your opinion is flat out wrong.


It's an opinion. Can't be wrong. Negative, sure, but still accurate. Sounds like someone is upset that their loaded topic has a vocal and opposite opinion.

Sentimentality is an odd argument, by the way. Even after I get X, even if I never transfer. . . I can still play black. Miraculous, I know. But it's a separate Region and different game.

But I'll stand by that if it's the same as before, it's as lazy an out for completing the dex or competitive playing as it is in design.

And I'll stand by what I said. What major changes outside of the Safari Zone came from HGSS compared to G/S? Platinum added snow. Emerald and FR/LG did more, in my opinion. Here you're talking changes to the pokemon offered or mild appearance changes, but no substance was added. Changes in pokemon layout being a particularly bad argument in a topic debating trading pokemon forward anyway.

And it's not really much of a punishment to other fans is the point. Competitive legal players likely won't need every old poke they built and people looking to complete the dex can do so, they just have to put in *gasp* more effort than trading.

I'm all for it if designed interestingly. The fact that fans want to copy and paste the same team from another game though isn't enough to convince me it's appropriate to just slap on haphazardly with no answers to actual problems and limiting changes.
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Thinking is overrated. Like Pants.
#23ClassyOldHat(Topic Creator)Posted 6/16/2013 8:48:19 AM
bd43 posted...
It's an opinion. Can't be wrong. Negative, sure, but still accurate. Sounds like someone is upset that their loaded topic has a vocal and opposite opinion.


Yes yes, correct. My mistake; an opinion can't be wrong, but the beliefs that lead to forming it can. And yours are.

Sentimentality is an odd argument, by the way. Even after I get X, even if I never transfer. . . I can still play black. Miraculous, I know. But it's a separate Region and different game.

Of course, because traveling through multiple games with the same characters can never be fun. Just ignore everyone else's opinion because YOU don't get it. Again, you want to take out a feature that doesn't hurt you because you don't care for it. Real selfless.

And I'll stand by what I said. What major changes outside of the Safari Zone came from HGSS compared to G/S? Platinum added snow. Emerald and FR/LG did more, in my opinion.
Funny how I give a few actual examples of changes, but you just say that FRLGE "did more in my opinion," without actually listing that changes. (incidentally? Which games added more can be objectively measured. No "opinion" cop-outs there.) What, are you afraid that if a list of changes from Emerald was compared to a list of changes from Platinum, it'd be clear that they are equal, or greater in Plat's favor? Or that FRLGE had just as many meaningless changes as the games you deride?

I won't play the fool anymore, I'll just never give examples of meaningful additions, and casually dismiss any examples you give as being meaningless, "In my opinion" so that I can never be wrong.

And it's not really much of a punishment to other fans is the point. Competitive legal players likely won't need every old poke they built and people looking to complete the dex can do so, they just have to put in *gasp* more effort than trading.

I'm all for it if designed interestingly. The fact that fans want to copy and paste the same team from another game though isn't enough to convince me it's appropriate to just slap on haphazardly with no answers to actual problems and limiting changes.


What about "raising a charizard in one postgame is the same as raising it in another postgame (barring a handful of exceptions for new abilities/egg moves which would mean you have to raise a new one to use, BC or otherwise)" did you fail to understand? Without BC, that is the definition of lazy, uninspired, recycled content!

I guess you're the kinda fellow who supports mandatory tutorials, each game too? EVERYONE's got to get their "Fresh start" after all, even if they've been told pressing start opens the pause menu a hundred times by now.

Once you're in postgame, bar a few sidequests, there is basically nothing to do but level grind Pokemon against wild pokemon and re-matchable trainers. By this point, even if there is no BC, you already have high level pokes from the story mode to do the fighting for the new ones until they can wipe the floor as well. This is no different from game to game. BC saves time when, and only when, the player has done EVERYTHING but the Battle Tower. BC does not provide a "lazy out,"
it allows players to skip tedium they performed in the first game.

Also, if you seriously think people just copy/paste old teams, then you really don't understand why competitive players use BC.

Also, Problems? Sorry, the only "problem" is hacking, and that WILL happen either way (meaning if BC was cut, ONLY legit players would suffer). Limiting changes? This isn't the nineties anymore, changing programs is easier than ever. The only thing keeping Pokemon from changing is GameFreak themselves.
#24bd43Posted 6/16/2013 3:41:18 PM
'm laughing my ass off at how defeated you are acting over this conflicting opinion. For example, trying to relate ignoring how boring you find the postgame to mandatory tutorials. If you find the postgame boring, I'd argue you have no stake. Adding Pokemon, raised or unraised, won't fix that for you.

I'll come back for your points later, but remember this is a debate with no wrong answer. stop being defensive.
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Thinking is overrated. Like Pants.
#25ClassyOldHat(Topic Creator)Posted 6/16/2013 4:27:19 PM
bd43 posted...
'm laughing my ass off at how defeated you are acting over this conflicting opinion. For example, trying to relate ignoring how boring you find the postgame to mandatory tutorials. If you find the postgame boring, I'd argue you have no stake. Adding Pokemon, raised or unraised, won't fix that for you.

I'll come back for your points later, but remember this is a debate with no wrong answer. stop being defensive.


*looks my post over* I guess writing after midnight had more effect on my arguments than I remembered. Especially in amplifying my frustration.

Tutorials were a bad example, as I do enjoy the Battle Tower and postgame level grinding for NEW pokemon (or old one with moves or abiliies that completely change the way they are played,) but I couldn't think of anything that really paralleled the situation in any other game at the time. The point was less "I don't want to do this because it's boring" and more "I don't want to do this because I had as much fun with this as I could this the first time, and am getting diminishing returns."

Maybe a better comparison would be having to play through all levels of Super Mario 3D as both Mario and Luigi to unlock the final stage. The two characters control slightly differently, Luigi having a higher jump but Mario having better traction, but it's not enough to make a level feel better than it did the first time. The good levels are still good, but there are no surprises anymore, so it's not as fun as the first time, and the bad levels are still bad, and you still with you could skip them.

I had fun playing as Mario the first time (raising a postgame Pokemon in RSEFRLG,), but it was less interesting doing the same thing with a barely different character (Raising the same species of postgame Pokemon in BW2). And shouldn't video games, ideally, be as interesting as possible throughout the experience?