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How about an addition/change to the battle system?

#1ServarePosted 6/16/2013 10:44:36 AM
I'm just curious what you all think of adding more interaction into combat. This just popped in my mind, I'm not saying it should happen or that it would make the game better. I'm just curious what you think. Though, personally, I would prefer a little more to do during combat than select an attack and watch, I'm not a big pokemon fan. i've only played three games. Red, yellow, and gold. (oh and firered, that makes 4).

Anyway, anyone here play the mario and luigi games? Or paper mario? Or Mario RPG (yeah i'm a little old)? Those games have button prompts during combat that allow more damage, greater defense, or even a dodge.

How would you like a system like this implemented into this series? I feel like it could be good in that it could give the sense of superiority through mastering pokemon's attacks allowing for a signficantly weaker pokemon to come out on top even if it's lower level and weaker affinity.

But I know that such things can get annoying and can definitely be a source of frustration when too many are missed, especially ones you know very well. (looking at you Super Jump!!!)

Just curious. What do you think?

I'm kinda looking for some semi-intelligible conversations here, but maybe I'll just get flamed for having the audacity to even think of the blasphemy that is the "adding a change to the system."
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Fons sapientiae, verbum Dei.
#2MaplesGrandGMPosted 6/16/2013 11:07:40 AM
Or you could just be flamed for having the audacity to suggest such a ridiculous change to the battle system. Which actually makes sense, I mean, just cause you have an idea to change a battle system, doesn't make it a good idea. Getting flamed for a bad way of doing something, rather than just for the suggestion of doing something seems more likely.

The mere fact that you suggested you'd only be flamed for suggesting even changing the battle system at all, shows arrogance. Like you think your particular idea is so great, that clearly anyone bashing it, is only against change, and not your idea specifically.

Frankly, when you consider the fact that, in the games you mentioned, you're directly controlling the characters, but in Pokemon you're controlling the trainer that is barking out orders at the Pokemon, it makes sense that this system is not at all a part of the current battle system. Which is to say, your specific idea of how to change the battle system sucks, and in reality, you seek to change too little, and at the same time too much.

This isn't even considering the fact that with the current battling system, there's no real room for lag to screw you over in competition, where as adding this could change that. I just really don't think you thought your specific idea through. So you really had no room for the arrogance you showed in suggesting that people could only flame you for suggesting the battle system be changed, rather than flaming you for having a poorly thought out idea.
#3CakeOfLiesPosted 6/16/2013 11:26:33 AM
As much as I love Mario RPG, the first two Paper Mario games (I'm actually Nuzlocking TTYD), and the Mario and Luigi games, I wouldn't like it if that kind of system was added to the Pokemon series. Competitive play would turn into timing of pushing a button instead of actual skill of building a team, anticipating your opponent's moves, etc.

Considering that you could literally beat the Mario and Luigi games without getting hurt, I don't want competitive play to turn into a bunch of trolls using crappy Pokemon on purpose and winning because they're better at dodging than team building.

As for Action Commands being added, I'm somewhat indifferent, but I'm leaning on no. Again, it'll turn into a game of pushing A to avoid damage or deal more damage instead of simply relying on chance or skill of making a good moveset.
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I'm not easily impressed; I'm usually oblivious to whatever's in front of me.
#4Servare(Topic Creator)Posted 6/16/2013 11:29:53 AM
MaplesGrandGM posted...
Or you could just be flamed for having the audacity to suggest such a ridiculous change to the battle system. Which actually makes sense, I mean, just cause you have an idea to change a battle system, doesn't make it a good idea. Getting flamed for a bad way of doing something, rather than just for the suggestion of doing something seems more likely.

The mere fact that you suggested you'd only be flamed for suggesting even changing the battle system at all, shows arrogance. Like you think your particular idea is so great, that clearly anyone bashing it, is only against change, and not your idea specifically.

Frankly, when you consider the fact that, in the games you mentioned, you're directly controlling the characters, but in Pokemon you're controlling the trainer that is barking out orders at the Pokemon, it makes sense that this system is not at all a part of the current battle system. Which is to say, your specific idea of how to change the battle system sucks, and in reality, you seek to change too little, and at the same time too much.

This isn't even considering the fact that with the current battling system, there's no real room for lag to screw you over in competition, where as adding this could change that. I just really don't think you thought your specific idea through. So you really had no room for the arrogance you showed in suggesting that people could only flame you for suggesting the battle system be changed, rather than flaming you for having a poorly thought out idea.


Almost, but not quite. I specifically stated that I did not think this would make the game better, though for me it would. The area of competition, you are still incorrect in that now personal skill has entered more into the fray instead a roll of the dice, in addition to proper pokemon building and breeding. And I actually have given it a little more thought than I put into the post, but you're blind arrogance doesn't allow you to see the possibilities of it success, but only it's failure. I am well aware of the faults, and I never stated it should happen or needs to happen. Also, my statement that to be flamed only on the premise of people not liking the idea was a stab at blind fanboi-ism with the mindset of "it's perfect and needs no changes", which you seem to be a part of.

Looking for discussion was my aim, instead, I got you. Sad day, but expected, considering.

Is there anyone willing to talk about it? Or just hate?
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Fons sapientiae, verbum Dei.
#5Servare(Topic Creator)Posted 6/16/2013 11:34:28 AM
CakeOfLies posted...
As much as I love Mario RPG, the first two Paper Mario games (I'm actually Nuzlocking TTYD), and the Mario and Luigi games, I wouldn't like it if that kind of system was added to the Pokemon series. Competitive play would turn into timing of pushing a button instead of actual skill of building a team, anticipating your opponent's moves, etc.

Considering that you could literally beat the Mario and Luigi games without getting hurt, I don't want competitive play to turn into a bunch of trolls using crappy Pokemon on purpose and winning because they're better at dodging than team building.

As for Action Commands being added, I'm somewhat indifferent, but I'm leaning on no. Again, it'll turn into a game of pushing A to avoid damage or deal more damage instead of simply relying on chance or skill of making a good moveset.


Completely understandable. As I do not play this game competitively, I cannot with great confidence quote that such an addition would not ruin the current competitive spike. I really wasn't thinking it would be the main form of determining damage and defense, only an addition. But I can see the point of some people simply winning because they can spam A better than someone else, which I agree, is beyond stupid. Proper party set up, management of skills and accurate breeding should trump being able to dodge uber beam move.

Though I still think the game would be more engaging if I could have a little more control over how my pokemon acted in battle. Again, I'm not a avid player.
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Fons sapientiae, verbum Dei.
#6CakeOfLiesPosted 6/16/2013 11:35:55 AM
Servare posted...
CakeOfLies posted...
As much as I love Mario RPG, the first two Paper Mario games (I'm actually Nuzlocking TTYD), and the Mario and Luigi games, I wouldn't like it if that kind of system was added to the Pokemon series. Competitive play would turn into timing of pushing a button instead of actual skill of building a team, anticipating your opponent's moves, etc.

Considering that you could literally beat the Mario and Luigi games without getting hurt, I don't want competitive play to turn into a bunch of trolls using crappy Pokemon on purpose and winning because they're better at dodging than team building.

As for Action Commands being added, I'm somewhat indifferent, but I'm leaning on no. Again, it'll turn into a game of pushing A to avoid damage or deal more damage instead of simply relying on chance or skill of making a good moveset.


Completely understandable. As I do not play this game competitively, I cannot with great confidence quote that such an addition would not ruin the current competitive spike. I really wasn't thinking it would be the main form of determining damage and defense, only an addition. But I can see the point of some people simply winning because they can spam A better than someone else, which I agree, is beyond stupid. Proper party set up, management of skills and accurate breeding should trump being able to dodge uber beam move.

Though I still think the game would be more engaging if I could have a little more control over how my pokemon acted in battle. Again, I'm not a avid player.


I do agree that the battle system could use an addition. But it needs to be something else.
You're definitely on to something here though.
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I'm not easily impressed; I'm usually oblivious to whatever's in front of me.
#7ZhadosPosted 6/16/2013 11:39:40 AM
After Nintendogs I really doubt interactive combat would work (assuming it would utilize the mic/touch screen)...
I do like the idea though; of course it's a game, but actually feeling united with your pokemon like in the anime would be great.
#8jadon7Posted 6/16/2013 11:41:36 AM
Those extra stuff may work for single-player RPGs, where evasion and dodging aren't an issue against AI. But Pokemon's battle system has to keep in mind the PvP aspect, so some of the usual RPG aspects would just make PvP battles more frustrating or wouldn't work very well.
#9Lucidious89Posted 6/16/2013 11:44:58 AM
This isnt a new idea, nor has it ever been a very good one. Every time i see it or other ideas like it suggested, i question if the person truly understands what it is that makes the current pokemon battle system so good. Because additions like this sort of ruin it. Its a pointless, arbitrary addition being shoehorned in a game that has no place for it. It would he like saying "hey, what if we added this new rule in chess that forces you to jump exactly 3ft into the air every time you move a piece on the board. if you over jump, you miss and skip your turn."

Rules of this kind have no place in this type of game. Pokemon is a game of outsmarting and playing mind games with your opponent. It is not a game that is about testing dexterity and precise physical movement. Fortunately, pokemon is a broad and expansive series where spin off games and mini games within the core games can offer that style of gameplay as a distraction if you desire it.
#10Servare(Topic Creator)Posted 6/16/2013 11:57:40 AM
jadon7 posted...
Those extra stuff may work for single-player RPGs, where evasion and dodging aren't an issue against AI. But Pokemon's battle system has to keep in mind the PvP aspect, so some of the usual RPG aspects would just make PvP battles more frustrating or wouldn't work very well.


And I can completely see this side of things. I was mostly considering ONLY the single player when I first made the topic. Being that I've never battle a real person before (or, if I had, it's been so long I don't remember), I didn't really think too much on that aspect.

Regardless, games like FFVI did a great job in making turn based a lot of fun. While other games... not so much. Personally, Pokemon is a little simple and slower than I would like in an RPG. BBBBUUUUUTTTT I have not played the most recent additions so mayhaps, things have changed. I'm actually excited about these latest releases.

As for the other poster, your analogy with chess was off the mark, but regardless, I understand what you're saying.

I'm just a fan of interaction. I enjoy being able to do something during combat while playing RPGs. Again, I think FFVI is a wonderful example. Legend of Dragoon had a great combat system, too, though that is in no way is a possibility for these games. lol.
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Fons sapientiae, verbum Dei.