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Why are these games always so sexist?

#41RoobitysuPosted 6/16/2013 7:41:21 PM
Actually, about 40%.

But if Marlon is okay but Misty isn't, I call shenanigans
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#42TherianReturnsPosted 6/16/2013 7:44:02 PM
Goatercycle posted...
Is there really a feminism topic on a Pokemon message board? Why do I even come here?


This. Same with people who follow internet rules. I should only come here when news breaks out.
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#43IsredelPosted 6/16/2013 7:47:18 PM
I think you're turning a non-issue into an issue. Yes, your four points of evidence are true, but you're shaping the evidence around your hypothesis, not the other way around. Most of the board has already said what I wanted to say (female attire just generally being more revealing in our culture, fanbase directed towards young boys, etc.), so I won't beat a dead horse here.

Is Pokemon a little sexist? Probably. Is it a problem? Not really.
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#44bobstevens23123Posted 6/16/2013 8:20:57 PM
tc is such a loser. This wouldnt even b a topic if it(the situation) was reversed
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#45NightinanglePosted 6/16/2013 8:31:00 PM
Arne83 posted...
Hierarchy225 posted...
Arne83 posted...
Rememberdaname posted...
that anita chick has really got me noticing this stuff in the games.


Why would you ever listen to her? Her videos are filled with nothing but buzzword stuffed drivel.


Uh because she makes good points?


Are we watching the same videos? Because I saw not good points at all. All I saw was pseudo-feminist nonsense.


As a female...I still find feminists annoying. Never met Anita, but I think it is about time to get over it, In america at least. Things are good in america. And honestly, if you have suuuch a huge problem about it, stop yelling at guys, yell at the girls who wear the small bikinis for money. (hopefully they won't listen to you either, their choice. Which is choice, which is a feminists huuuge problem anyway...they want females to make choices unless that choice pleases a guy)
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#46QuantumpencilPosted 6/16/2013 9:57:42 PM
The answer to the question is, as I think has already been mentioned, is that Asian gender roles are still very, very strong. I can't speak first hand about Japan, but I've been to China a couple of time and pretty much every one of my friends there hold extremely traditional views regarding gender roles in their society. Chinese girls are groomed in ways that wouldn't be out of place in Victorian England in order to make themselves good Brides and home-makers, and though many of them do have jobs, their social value still comes from the man they manage to net.

Not that these sorts of beliefs are uncommon in the U.S, but they are definitely much weaker, especially in Urban areas like New York or Chicago were the capitalist ethos reigns supreme and has (mostly) vanquished traditional structures in re: economic freedom (Oddly enough - it has NOT had this effect in Shanghai, the comparable Chinese City - at least not yet.)

That said, Feminism is a diverse school of thought which produces valuable and useful insights. There are a lot of groups which use the moniker feminism, ranging from pseudo-political groups lobbying for maternity leave accommodations and the erosion of work-place stereotypes, to academics looking at historical/social events through a feminist critical theory (Which is ironically enough, sometimes prone to EXTREMELY well-defined ideas of gender, something I'm not crazy about) to anti-male activist groups. It's not fair though to brand or react to anyone who points out the quite ubiquitous lingerings of a dying patriarchy as some sort of uppity man-hater.

Feminism at its best is not just for women. It's about the erosion of inherited gender roles in an attempt to free human beings from prescribed social rules about how they are to behave - mission statement which subsumes liberating men from the things that bind them.To make socially acceptable both a gentle and nurturing man who lacks cut throat career ambition, and a woman who possesses those ambitions is the highest goal of the movement, which it hopes to achieve by challenging the thoughtless promulgation of the ideas about gender we inherited, hoping that from the conflict - those ideas might be modified, freeing both men and women from their clasp.
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#47NightinanglePosted 6/16/2013 10:01:56 PM
Quantumpencil posted...
The answer to the question is, as I think has already been mentioned, is that Asian gender roles are still very, very strong. I can't speak first hand about Japan, but I've been to China a couple of time and pretty much every one of my friends there hold extremely traditional views regarding gender roles in their society. Chinese girls are groomed in ways that wouldn't be out of place in Victorian England in order to make themselves good Brides and home-makers, and though many of them do have jobs, their social value still comes from the man they manage to net.

Not that these sorts of beliefs are uncommon in the U.S, but they are definitely much weaker, especially in Urban areas like New York or Chicago were the capitalist ethos reigns supreme and has (mostly) vanquished traditional structures in re: economic freedom (Oddly enough - it has NOT had this effect in Shanghai, the comparable Chinese City - at least not yet.)

That said, Feminism is a diverse school of thought which produces valuable and useful insights. There are a lot of groups which use the moniker feminism, ranging from pseudo-political groups lobbying for maternity leave accommodations and the erosion of work-place stereotypes, to academics looking at historical/social events through a feminist critical theory (Which is ironically enough, sometimes prone to EXTREMELY well-defined ideas of gender, something I'm not crazy about) to anti-male activist groups. It's not fair though to brand or react to anyone who points out the quite ubiquitous lingerings of a dying patriarchy as some sort of uppity man-hater.

Feminism at its best is not just for women. It's about the erosion of inherited gender roles in an attempt to free human beings from prescribed social rules about how they are to behave - mission statement which subsumes liberating men from the things that bind them.To make socially acceptable both a gentle and nurturing man who lacks cut throat career ambition, and a woman who possesses those ambitions is the highest goal of the movement, which it hopes to achieve by challenging the thoughtless promulgation of the ideas about gender we inherited, hoping that from the conflict - those ideas might be modified, freeing both men and women from their clasp.


Umm. Then why arew feminists fine with drafting only males? like...draft only us and people (me included, as war scares me) get mad, draft only colored people and you'd get real mad "they didn't choose to be black!" but now there are less male americans and they are only drafted and they didn't choose to be boys...
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I support for Echo type pkmon gen 7
#48LightningAce11Posted 6/16/2013 10:12:42 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator]
#49RoleOfGSHCPosted 6/16/2013 10:15:18 PM(edited)
Quantumpencil posted...
Feminism at its best is not just for women. It's about the erosion of inherited gender roles in an attempt to free human beings from prescribed social rules about how they are to behave - mission statement which subsumes liberating men from the things that bind them.To make socially acceptable both a gentle and nurturing man who lacks cut throat career ambition, and a woman who possesses those ambitions is the highest goal of the movement, which it hopes to achieve by challenging the thoughtless promulgation of the ideas about gender we inherited, hoping that from the conflict - those ideas might be modified, freeing both men and women from their clasp.


You say this, but a lot of backlash that feminism gets is because a lot of feminists are notorious not for empowering women, but for attacking men. While I understand the importance of us women to have an equal role in society, the fact that one of the most iconic strategies, at least from my perspective, is to put down men or to skew facts to make them look like the villains is one of the big things sabotaging feminist efforts.

Perhaps instead of coming in and claiming that the games are sexist, people like the TC should come in and instead of attacking the games, promote more equal values in them?

For example, some of the most memorable characters in the games were women. Cynthia, for instance, made a huge impression on me by being the first champion to utterly kick my butt. I mean /holy crap/, Cynthia... None of the other champions ever had as much of an impression as she. But instead of holding her up as an example and encouraging more to come, people like the TC saying that there's "too many men" tends to have a negative reaction, since it implies men are bad.

*sigh* Sometimes I wish that they'd think about these things first.
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#50QuantumpencilPosted 6/16/2013 10:36:40 PM(edited)
I don't think most feminist groups are ok with drafting only men. Most of the groups of feminists have stances ranging from "Women should be allowed to serve in the military in equal capacity" to "The growing influence of women and femininity in the halls of power will erode the need for the military as a conflict resolution mechanism, which can then be disbanded," depending on their priorities and whether or not they adhere to some of Feminist critical theory's (which is a different thing) characterizations of absolute gender roles and how they influence society more broadly, or they have another approach to understanding that phenomena.


]For example, some of the most memorable characters in the games were women. Cynthia, for instance, made a huge impression on me by being the first champion to utterly kick my butt. I mean /holy crap/, Cynthia... None of the other champions ever had as much of an impression as she. But instead of holding her up and an example and encouraging more to come, people like the TC saying that there's "too many men" tends to have a negative reaction, since it implies men are bad.


I don't think that is what it implies, and I think you're requesting too much deference on the part of a smaller activist movement. The claim isn't "there are too many men." It's not about the number of men or women, it's about the type of role they have and their treatment in the medium. The claim is "All of these important roles are filled, once again, by men - and the females are characterized, once again, in a patriarchal" and it is not a claim made in a vacuum. Think about the last 20 films you saw, how many of them had strong, independent female characters whose fundamental way of related to the plot wasn't as a goal to be achieved for a male character?

Feminists are trying to draw attention to these sorts of tropes and their prevalence, because they seek to change them, since they believe them to reinforce in young men and women ideas about who they are and what they are capable of being which are tied to the patriarchy. Naturally they sometimes overshoot, but I don't think the project is ill-founded or that their tactics are uniformly anti-male. Once can vocally criticize the prevalence of men in subject roles, and the continued portrayal of women in subordinate object roles, without being a man hater.

Simply be virtue of the male-female power dynamic we've inherited, there is legitimate ground on which men must be attacked, and a fair degree of power and dominance which men must lose if these things are to change. Realizing that doesn't make feminists man-haters, it simply means that they recognize that the existence of an under-privileged group in a specific theater entails as a necessity a privilege enjoyed by the older group, and that part of change is undermining that privilege and removing it from the group which once held it. Men WILL lose things (Like their monopoly on active roles in art) in the process, and they will resist that loss, but that loss is part of the process.
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