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I just realized something important about game data this time around

#11TorchicBlazikenPosted 6/18/2013 2:26:06 PM
beebarb posted...
So unless they allow save file locks for certain titles


They do allow that. Mii Plaza, Animal Crossing, and Dream Radar are locked. So no backups for X and Y.
#12Second_ChancesPosted 6/18/2013 2:31:12 PM
beebarb posted...
So unless they allow save file locks for certain titles, cheating in Pokemon X and Y will be entirely possible (in time) without any cheat devices, or modded systems. Provided the cheater has a digital copy.


Animal Crossing and Monster Hunter already don't allow it. Pokemon obviously won't, but then you can still manually back it up.


Not like it matters, because we've been able to rip 3DS save files from the cart since day one with regular DS game USB backup tools. Even if the 3DS itself won't be hacked yet, someone will find a way to hack their way into those Pokemon save files.
#13beebarbPosted 6/18/2013 6:56:52 PM(edited)
MateoRinghead posted...
MyNameIsNotJen posted...
Once you transfer your old file to a new card and save (which you will do if you trade) the save file on the old card will get corrupted.
If you wanted to do this you would have to re-download the game again on a different SD card from the eShop, which will also work for multiple save files. It will be easy since you can re-download all digital games for free as much as you want.


How does the save file get corrupted? Is it like I said, where some data on the 3DS itself says "only accept save data that looks like this" through a timestamp or something?


It doesn't, that's just nonsense. So long as you copy the contents of the SD card excactly (with the exception of any of your own folders and the DCIM folder) and don't go messing around, you could have multiple save files or even duplicate existing saves by using two or more SD cards.

It's impossible for the system to magically corrupt a save file on an SD card not even inserted into it anymore. I've had to do this myself at least once, I was running out of space on my 2GB SD card, so I copied everything to a 32GB card. I tested a game that saves first to be sure everything was copied properly, and it worked fine even when changing the cards back.

And with the new backup feature, it's easy to create backups that you can restore, or even copy to your computer for safe-keeping in case something were to happen (provided the title permits it).

The one golden rule of 3DS SD cards is Do not move, rename or otherwise alter anything in the 'Nintendo 3DS' folder and it's subfolders!. That rule now has one exception a new 'backup' folder exists as a subfolder, which can be safely copied to a computer and it's contents can be replaced with an older copy, provided those contents weren't renamed or corrupted.
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Looking forward to Pokemon X and Y.
White FC: 0862-2660-4156 / 3DS FC: 2492-4470-1418 / White 2 FC: 4556-7836-2644
#14MateoRinghead(Topic Creator)Posted 6/19/2013 7:37:54 AM
beebarb posted...
It's impossible for the system to magically corrupt a save file on an SD card not even inserted into it anymore.


Well obviously it can't CORRUPT the save data, but is there really no way for it to tell that it's not the same save data that you used last time? I was inclined to believe that the scenario that you described was correct, where you could copy the exact contents of an SD card off, then restore them later to use multiple saves, but claims people have made here seem to imply otherwise. A friend of mine explained that it would be fairly easy/common for a game to hash its data, then compare the new hash with the old one to ensure that no editing has been done to it. It doesn't sound unreasonable that the 3DS itself could store said hashes to prevent tampering, but I really don't know anything about the internal storage of the system.

Can anybody confirm if any of this is reasonable? Perhaps copy New Leaf data onto another SD card, play the game a little, then see if using the copy works?
#15beebarbPosted 6/20/2013 2:53:47 AM
Generating a hash for the save file each time would be a waste of resources, and increase saving time, not to mention the 3DS doesn't store anything downloaded from the eShop or anything connected to the downloaded software in it's internal memory.

The only thing stored in the internal memory is system settings, DSiWare, and optionally Photos from the camera, and recordings from the Music player if no SD card is inserted.

So even if a game wasted resources to hash save files to prevent tampering, multiple saves could still be utilised if more than one SD card was in use.

Hash keys take up space just like anything else, and wasting the internal system storage on something like that with no way to erase it would be impractical and only irritate users. Particularly when a user has such a large collection of games that those keys would start to noticeably impact available system storage.
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Looking forward to Pokemon X and Y.
White FC: 0862-2660-4156 / 3DS FC: 2492-4470-1418 / White 2 FC: 4556-7836-2644
#16bd43Posted 6/20/2013 3:41:07 AM
Here's the thing: There's still an element of time involved in cheating, and it would still be tougher for physical copies.

More over, then you can only cheat certain mons with a more controlled moveset.

All in all, though, the digital aspect, to me, is one of the better reasons to DITCH the backwards compatibility as the roster would be leagues easier to rebuild and lead to more interesting design choices for remakes, sequels, and any additional content.
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Thinking is overrated. Like Pants.
#17beebarbPosted 6/20/2013 3:52:26 AM
bd43 posted...
Here's the thing: There's still an element of time involved in cheating, and it would still be tougher for physical copies.

More over, then you can only cheat certain mons with a more controlled moveset.

All in all, though, the digital aspect, to me, is one of the better reasons to DITCH the backwards compatibility as the roster would be leagues easier to rebuild and lead to more interesting design choices for remakes, sequels, and any additional content.


Except, that all removing backwards compatibility would really ever accomplish is irritating the majority of the fanbase. Particularly legitimate Shiny hunters, and those like myself who have poor luck with Shiny Pokemon and managed to collect only a few by random chance.

Their design possibilities won't be any better with backwards compatibility gone, and won't be any worse with it still around.
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Looking forward to Pokemon X and Y.
White FC: 0862-2660-4156 / 3DS FC: 2492-4470-1418 / White 2 FC: 4556-7836-2644
#18bd43Posted 6/20/2013 4:50:54 AM
beebarb posted...
bd43 posted...
Here's the thing: There's still an element of time involved in cheating, and it would still be tougher for physical copies.

More over, then you can only cheat certain mons with a more controlled moveset.

All in all, though, the digital aspect, to me, is one of the better reasons to DITCH the backwards compatibility as the roster would be leagues easier to rebuild and lead to more interesting design choices for remakes, sequels, and any additional content.


Except, that all removing backwards compatibility would really ever accomplish is irritating the majority of the fanbase. Particularly legitimate Shiny hunters, and those like myself who have poor luck with Shiny Pokemon and managed to collect only a few by random chance.

Their design possibilities won't be any better with backwards compatibility gone, and won't be any worse with it still around.


The Pokemon, particularly the ill gotten shinies that were dirt easy to get in Gen IV (90% of which shouldn't even be called shiny) still exist. On an older cart, mind you, but you lost nothing. So there goes sentimentality and retainer of accomplishments.

Only a small portion of the fanbase would be gone.for long. And backwards compatibility allows for games like HGSS to add nothing substantial while the transfer is boring and Pokemon move from rotting in one cart to rotting in another. I'd argue design has suffered a bit due to stagnation

There's no real challenge available to them and very few Pokemon exist that have been inherently competitive with a single moveset for 3 Gens. So competition isn't a huge argument either.

And if you're filling the pokedex, you may as well not count the 649 or so traded over unless trade is inherently required.

Having said all of that, I'd just prefer it to be for more than nothing. Transferring has no real reward beyond retaining old rewards.
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Thinking is overrated. Like Pants.
#19MateoRinghead(Topic Creator)Posted 6/20/2013 10:40:47 AM
bd43 posted...
Transferring has no real reward beyond retaining old rewards.


My reward is that I get to use my level 100 Lucario, who has an attack-boosting nature, max EVs AND IVs in attack and speed, and a move pool that covers a huge variety of baddies, in fights against the newbies. You know how long I worked to get him? How many Riolus I've murdered? It's not like I'm just going to transfer over my old team and never get any new Pokemon, I would just prefer that my countless hours of work don't get wasted because they didn't want to throw in some extra transfer code.

Also, there's no way in hell you'll be able to collect every Pokemon without the old games. I know they ditched the "Gotta Catch em All" catchphrase after gen 2, but there's still gotta be some folks out there who want to try.
#20CaptainSkankPosted 6/22/2013 11:02:08 AM
bd43 posted...
The Pokemon, particularly the ill gotten shinies that were dirt easy to get in Gen IV (90% of which shouldn't even be called shiny) still exist. [...]

I hope you mean mods/hacks and not legitimate things like breeding Pokémon from different countries or the Poké Radar.