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Hooray! There's a no SR OU available in Showdown now.

#41megaman_xdudePosted 6/23/2013 1:27:59 PM
yzman posted...
megaman_xdude posted...
Though this is good for people who want the play the game without the broken SR but now all those dragon types and overpowered fire types will be the broken ones seeing how they will all hold sashes and spam outrage or buff even more so than they do now with SR...so I don't see what this helps unless they're making a new meta-game surrounding it like making the obvious outrage spammers Uber as well as Volcarona because SR keeps them in their place, and we all know that we'll see V-create, I just don't know what it helps.

Mind you, I hate SR, so I'm not protecting it but there are more broken things in Pokemon, like the new buff moves outside of work out, Shell-smash and quiver dance are both very broken. Since SS can be used with White-Herb and QD is just overpowered in general

Powerful moves like V-creative and Outrage needs a nerf, or better drawbacks.

Some abilities like Prankster needs more limitations for example not letting moves like copycat then roar be used with it, and Serene Grace needs to be toned down come on now eliminating the chance for the other playing to attack is that really fair?

Eviolite should be nerfed or taken out of the game

Confusion ratio needs to be lessened to about to prevent derpy para-fusion tactics as well as flinch (Most for Serene Grace users)

Perma-Weather starters abilities needs to be looked at to balance them I think they should keep the 5 turn limit but allow the user the chance to not use the move, though still affected by items like damp rock though.

The problem with Pokemon isn't just SR, the main problem of Pokemon is that they took out the strategic portion of the game. The Meta-game is just what entry hazards/Weather can you set up leading to a spam fest, it's bad enough people pretty much pick the same party's because of this. I think taking care of some of these things would offer team variety back as well as allow more pokes to be used in the joke that is competitive play and and days.


All of these ideas are terrible IMO. It sounds like you would want to remove any strategy in the game and just have it purely based off of stats. Now even less pokes would be viable.


That's cute...but it's a strategy game not a spam one move and profit game, I know it's hard to understand but Pokemon should be about tactic, not about coming out and spamming entry hazards/permanent weather starters/Wildly powerful attacks that disregards resistances/stupid items that makes weaker forms stronger than they need to be/or a buff move that does to much. Pokemon should be about the TACTIC...spamming outrage isn't skill, buffing with a move that increase 3 stats without any draw backs isn't skill.

The reason why Curse works is because it increases ATK/DEF but lowers speed to prevent sweeping forcing the opponent to attack the foe weaken speed and it's untouched Special Defense stat making it easier to kill if not played correctly. The same goes for the other buff moves except Shell Smash

And what's the matter with the weather nerf, making Drizzle, Drought, Sand Stream and Snow Warning nothing but automatic Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Sandstorm and Hail removes it's stupidity forcing the user to think more before sending them out it also prevent spamming the most powerful moves the entire battle.

So tell me yzman which part of what I said tells you to remove tactic and rely solely off stats, and don't waste my time with wasted posts I want a direct answer please. Because by the looks of it I want more tactic and more Pokemon being used, and please tell me which pokes I made less viable...I'm confused.
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#42megaman_xdudePosted 6/23/2013 1:38:55 PM
KeeperOfShadows posted...
megaman_xdude posted...
KeeperOfShadows posted...
megaman_xdude posted...
Some abilities like Prankster needs more limitations for example not letting moves like copycat then roar be used with it, and Serene Grace needs to be toned down come on now eliminating the chance for the other playing to attack is that really fair?


You might as well have just said ban CopycatRoar and ParaFlinch sets...



The reason why I say these two is because they prevent the opponent from attacking with very little set up both can be done in two turns and requires zero to none skill or thought to do. though Paraflinch isn't as bad unless your SG user.

So I won't go as far as you and say ban them but Copycat shouldn't be a move that is compatible with Prankster


I hate losing to "cheap" strategies too, but that doesn't mean they should be done away with.

Especially since its quite fun to counter and defeat them(even better if they ragequit) ;)


And I've made quite a few people ragequit as well, but after a while it gets boring, I tired of people attempting to only use cheap strategies and having a slight chance of getting away with it. Removing it all together will enforce balancing and will promote more use of Pokemon and attacks. Pokemon isn't that broken at the end of the day but I want a game where both player will have to use their brain not just one.
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--I'm a warrior, I destroy Trollers and Fanboys with the power of common sense...
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#43bd43Posted 6/23/2013 1:42:18 PM
pokemonfreak97 posted...
See, I think that a single "SR free" tier won't work. They can't use pre-existing tiers for a metagame without SR; for instance, spinners lose a great deal of prominence now, all Fire-, Ice-, Bug-, and Flying-types jump up in usage if not in tiers (Volcarona to Uber, Moltres to at least UU, possibly OU, Charizard to one tier below Moltres, et cetera), and Multiscale Lugia reigns supreme, with Dragonite either becoming OU's top defensive Pokemon or a forgotten Uber in Lugia's shadow.


To be fair, though, SR should have been banned in Gen IV, pokemon showdown should allow complex bans, and weather starters should probably see a ban as well. With all that covered, if this OU is a more straightforward version of what should exist and happens to see more pokemon pushed out, so be it

I respect testing and opening and closing doors each gen, but short of additional versions of each issue and a few extra checks for each, they do and will dictate the metagame in a certain sense.

And frankly, stealth rocks should at least be banned from UU and lower. This may make some pokemon unusable in any tier, but it's better than applying largely the same strategy of set up to worse pokemon.
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#44KeeperOfShadowsPosted 6/23/2013 1:53:48 PM
megaman_xdude posted...
after a while it gets boring, I tired of people attempting to only use cheap strategies and having a slight chance of getting away with it. Removing it all together will enforce balancing and will promote more use of Pokemon and attacks. Pokemon isn't that broken at the end of the day but I want a game where both player will have to use their brain not just one.


I'll agree that it can get boring after awhile, but so will any strategy eventually.

Also, removing common strategies wouldn't promote the use of more pokemon and attacks(quite the opposite, really). Instead, people would be more likely to just use the pokemon with the best stats and the moves with the highest base power.

Hell, the main reason why some pokemon are considered viable is their use in certain strategies(bring a Riolu without Prankster, Copycat, or Roar into OU and see how long it lives..)

In the long run, your suggestions would have exactly the opposite effect on the metagame as you seem to desire.
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#45megaman_xdudePosted 6/23/2013 2:23:51 PM
KeeperOfShadows posted...
megaman_xdude posted...
after a while it gets boring, I tired of people attempting to only use cheap strategies and having a slight chance of getting away with it. Removing it all together will enforce balancing and will promote more use of Pokemon and attacks. Pokemon isn't that broken at the end of the day but I want a game where both player will have to use their brain not just one.


I'll agree that it can get boring after awhile, but so will any strategy eventually.

Also, removing common strategies wouldn't promote the use of more pokemon and attacks(quite the opposite, really). Instead, people would be more likely to just use the pokemon with the best stats and the moves with the highest base power.

Hell, the main reason why some pokemon are considered viable is their use in certain strategies(bring a Riolu without Prankster, Copycat, or Roar into OU and see how long it lives..)

In the long run, your suggestions would have exactly the opposite effect on the metagame as you seem to desire.



Well first off the majority of players pick the strongest without thinking anyway so that doesn't matter. And the Riolu thing isn't a common strategy it's a cheap one and those are the type of strategies I want to remove from the game. Because cheap isn't common it's cheap or else it would have been called common, it's more commonly cheap than anything else. On top of that Ou is the extremespeed tier and from what I know that move goes before all so that really wouldn't matter either. you shouldn't be using it in Dragon Country (OU) anyway.

Strategies don't get boring people spamming cheap ones that's when it gets boring and when you fight 1000 people who uses them that's a problem...what is it called...over centralization! And when something is over centralized especially if it's overpowered or cheap, needs to be taken care of.
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--I'm a warrior, I destroy Trollers and Fanboys with the power of common sense...
a power they don't possess!
#46KeeperOfShadowsPosted 6/23/2013 2:56:29 PM
megaman_xdude posted...
Because cheap isn't common it's cheap or else it would have been called common, it's more commonly cheap than anything else.


Cheap isn't common because those strategies have the biggest flaws. They're considered cheap because those flaws don't tend to be as useful against the more common threats.



Strategies don't get boring people spamming cheap ones that's when it gets boring and when you fight 1000 people who uses them that's a problem...what is it called...over centralization!

And when something is over centralized especially if it's overpowered or cheap, needs to be taken care of.



If you've played 1000 people using CopycatRoar or Paraflinch then you've been playing too much pokemon, imo. Also, over-centralization is when a threat is both so common and powerful that it practically becomes necessary to carry a counter on every team. Few of the strategies you've mentioned come close to that. Prankster Riolu can be shut down ridiculously easily, for example. Not to mention it isn't that common.
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A voice of reason, in a chaotic realm.
You're too angry... calm down... and let the madness take hold. - Arne83
#47DarkDragon386Posted 6/23/2013 4:29:19 PM
You could deal with Riolu in a few ways. First, it has to get off a roar with -5 (I think 5 with prankster anyway) priority before abusing it, so taking it out on the first shot would help.

Second, most priority attacks are in the same priority bracket, thus higher speed and priority helps. Extremespeed is guaranteed to outspeed it.

Most teams have at least something with protect, so there is another option.

You also have ingrain, which isn't used much but it is used often by Cradily and Smeagle.

Magic bounce and (I think Magic Coat) also work against copycat roar.

Paraflinch Jirachi or Togekiss is annoying though. I've seen too many carry both thunder wave and body slam, making your only surefire way to avoid paralysis as Golett/Golurk.
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#48Tatakai-No-KamiPosted 6/23/2013 5:32:57 PM
RTC3 posted...
From: Tatakai-No-Kami | #025
its funny how huge a difference people think this makes to the metagame.

it doesnt.


um sr is quite definitely a huge gamechanger


i dont even bother using it half the time, and i win. its good, ok. its not so good that i need to run it on every single team or else i'll get roflstomped or cant win a battle.
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