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Why do so many think Steel is too good?

#11KillerMechanoidPosted 6/24/2013 9:49:21 AM
Steel is best paired up with other stuff for more resistance coverage/weakness elimination. (Neutral against water/elec- pair it up with grass, Weak to fighting and Ground- Pair it with Bug or Flying)
It sucks as an offensive type, of course.

IIRC the main reason why so many teams have fire/fighting/ground moves is because of steel.
#125ky_4nth3mPosted 6/24/2013 10:34:07 AM
Faust_8 posted...
That wouldn't change the facts. Like I said, the bunch of resistances are balanced if they are easily hit for SE damage. Every team usually has redundant Fire, Fighting, or Ground attacks and it's not just to counter Steels.

Sometimes Steel is great to have, sometimes it's a huge liability. Just like...every other type.


please... you're talking like steel is not the only reason why people use fire moves lol

they don't carry fire moves to counter grass, bug or ice or "just because", they carry them because of steel types.
same goes for most non-stab fighting type moves.
ground is the only of those three that would actually be used - stab or not - for reasons not named steel.
but even ground is only used by some pokemon so they can hit steel types.

what i do agree with, is the fact that the meta is getting more and more offense oriented, which means steel is becoming less relevant.
so, it's not the type that isn't that great overall but defense itself that isn't very good anymore.
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#13Tatakai-No-KamiPosted 6/24/2013 10:34:34 AM
because it is
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#14bd43Posted 6/24/2013 10:44:14 AM
Anyone who thinks that people are afraid to use Steel because of it's weaknesses doesn't know a thing.

Add that most tend to handle one of those weaknesses with a second type and those high end attack types are generally rare. You have an issue. You can take 3-4 resistances and have it still wall most types but open the field.
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#15BallinariPosted 6/24/2013 10:49:29 AM
I literally consider Steel as a terrible defense type.

LMAO
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#16Faust_8(Topic Creator)Posted 6/24/2013 12:16:31 PM
5ky_4nth3m posted...
Faust_8 posted...
That wouldn't change the facts. Like I said, the bunch of resistances are balanced if they are easily hit for SE damage. Every team usually has redundant Fire, Fighting, or Ground attacks and it's not just to counter Steels.

Sometimes Steel is great to have, sometimes it's a huge liability. Just like...every other type.


please... you're talking like steel is not the only reason why people use fire moves lol

they don't carry fire moves to counter grass, bug or ice or "just because", they carry them because of steel types.
same goes for most non-stab fighting type moves.
ground is the only of those three that would actually be used - stab or not - for reasons not named steel.
but even ground is only used by some pokemon so they can hit steel types.

what i do agree with, is the fact that the meta is getting more and more offense oriented, which means steel is becoming less relevant.
so, it's not the type that isn't that great overall but defense itself that isn't very good anymore.


I see your point with Fire. But Ground and Fighting hits lots of things that aren't Steel and would be used regardless of Steel's existence. Or are you saying Earthquake wasn't a big deal in Gen I?

And let's not forget they don't resist Water or Electric either. Steel doesn't turn everything into a wall.

In order for a Steel type to be defensively good, it needs the right stats, movepool, and secondary type. Otherwise it's just so-so or only good for its offenses.
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#17bd43Posted 6/24/2013 12:54:30 PM
Faust_8 posted...
5ky_4nth3m posted...
Faust_8 posted...
That wouldn't change the facts. Like I said, the bunch of resistances are balanced if they are easily hit for SE damage. Every team usually has redundant Fire, Fighting, or Ground attacks and it's not just to counter Steels.

Sometimes Steel is great to have, sometimes it's a huge liability. Just like...every other type.


please... you're talking like steel is not the only reason why people use fire moves lol

they don't carry fire moves to counter grass, bug or ice or "just because", they carry them because of steel types.
same goes for most non-stab fighting type moves.
ground is the only of those three that would actually be used - stab or not - for reasons not named steel.
but even ground is only used by some pokemon so they can hit steel types.

what i do agree with, is the fact that the meta is getting more and more offense oriented, which means steel is becoming less relevant.
so, it's not the type that isn't that great overall but defense itself that isn't very good anymore.


I see your point with Fire. But Ground and Fighting hits lots of things that aren't Steel and would be used regardless of Steel's existence. Or are you saying Earthquake wasn't a big deal in Gen I?

And let's not forget they don't resist Water or Electric either. Steel doesn't turn everything into a wall.

In order for a Steel type to be defensively good, it needs the right stats, movepool, and secondary type. Otherwise it's just so-so or only good for its offenses.


9 of the 51 OU pokemon have a steel type as their second. And that's a group with 2 pokes who wouldn't make it with a weather ability and 8 dragon types.

Now, Earthquake is overpowered(a little, anyway), but fighting as a major offensive type woulf die if Steel dropped. Ice is bad, Rock is bad, Dark is mediocre, and lol Normal.

I respect the notion that Steel types still need to be good to compete, just as much as Dragons. But it's an edge regardless, and if you feel you need to nerf dragons, it's foolish to overlook Steel.

Go down the list of evolved pokemon and give each a Steel type and name the ones that get dynamicly worse. Then imagine a Fairy/Steel type.
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#18Archwing3441Posted 6/24/2013 1:21:01 PM(edited)
Faust_8 posted...
5ky_4nth3m posted...
Faust_8 posted...
That wouldn't change the facts. Like I said, the bunch of resistances are balanced if they are easily hit for SE damage. Every team usually has redundant Fire, Fighting, or Ground attacks and it's not just to counter Steels.

Sometimes Steel is great to have, sometimes it's a huge liability. Just like...every other type.


please... you're talking like steel is not the only reason why people use fire moves lol

they don't carry fire moves to counter grass, bug or ice or "just because", they carry them because of steel types.
same goes for most non-stab fighting type moves.
ground is the only of those three that would actually be used - stab or not - for reasons not named steel.
but even ground is only used by some pokemon so they can hit steel types.

what i do agree with, is the fact that the meta is getting more and more offense oriented, which means steel is becoming less relevant.
so, it's not the type that isn't that great overall but defense itself that isn't very good anymore.


I see your point with Fire. But Ground and Fighting hits lots of things that aren't Steel and would be used regardless of Steel's existence. Or are you saying Earthquake wasn't a big deal in Gen I?

And let's not forget they don't resist Water or Electric either. Steel doesn't turn everything into a wall.

In order for a Steel type to be defensively good, it needs the right stats, movepool, and secondary type. Otherwise it's just so-so or only good for its offenses.


I think it was a big deal gen 1 because there wasn't as many strong physical types in Gen 1.
Bug
Fighting
Flying
Ghost
Ground
Normal
Poison
Rock
Steel
were the only physical types until Gen 4. Bug only had 1 good move, with only 2 pokemon learning them, ghost didn't have any physical pokemon, normal hits nothing for super effective (although hyper beam was big gen 1), and poison's attacks aren't that good. It's for that reason that the earlier gens had a lot of pokemon learned Earthquake.

Edit: Just wanted to add that while dragon type are the ones getting a nerf, I don't think Dragon itself it that powerful. Dragon is only SE against 1, Resisted by 1, is hit by SE by 2 types, and resist 4 types. Really, by this logic, Dragon type is more defensive type than an offensive type. The reason why Dragon is OP because they always have the highest base stats compared to all the other nonlegendary pokemon.

Also wanted to add that just because a type is defensive doesn't mean the pokemon has to be defensive. An offensive pokemon wants good defensive typing as an offensive pokemon because they need to be able to switch into attacks, one of the main flaws of ground and fighting, they can easily be a free switch if the opponent places the right pokemon.
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