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Why is Blaziken Uber?

#31Rad_DudesmanPosted 7/1/2013 5:59:26 PM
The_Undying_84 posted...
Matezoide posted...
Because that would open a can of worms.


If they unbanned Blaze Blaziken, why not go further? Why not unban/test stuff like Water Absorb Politoed in NU? Unnerve Tyranitar in UU? Swarm Galvantula on NU? Level 80 Arceus on OU? Giratina on OU with half the EVs? Overgrown Venusaur on UU? Eviolite-less Chansey on UU?


I don't care about competitive pokemon but I always thought this argument was stupid. Just do the one thing and be done. They control whether they go further or not, they can just..........not


It's not that simple.

Smogon already have to keep considering complex bans as is thanks to the drizzle + SS ban, and that was a ban that didn't go against existing policy (it was merely unorthodox). Consistency is part of their policy, so prior precedents always have to at least be considered. A Pokémon + ability ban would actually require changing part of their existing policy, so it really would open the way for a lot of new bans to have to at least be considered.

The issue isn't just which bans are made, but also which ones are suggested; even if the higher ups keep rejecting them, too many suggestions for unnecessary complex bans drastically slows things down and gets in the way of discussion of more practical solutions (or whether solutions are even needed). These same problems also apply to clause reviews (while not the only reason, this did contribute towards making the review of the evasion clause a total mess).

The greater the number of complex bans that are made (especially if they alter existing policy), and hence the closer they become to the norm, the worse the problem will get. For the record, if the system for handling bans, clauses, etc hadn't changed it would be even worse (the current system gives the higher ups, who thankfully tend to be less complex-ban-happy than much of the community, the final say).

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#32NecroStreak128Posted 7/1/2013 6:02:11 PM
He is tree.
#33BountyanPosted 7/1/2013 6:10:09 PM(edited)
Why doesn't Smogon let me use Darkrai if it doesn't have Dark Void or Hypnosis!?
Why doesn't Smogon let me use Venusaur in UU if it doesn't have Chlorophyll!?
Why doesn't Smogon let me use Kyogre in NU if all I use is Scary Face!?
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#34Rad_DudesmanPosted 7/1/2013 6:15:09 PM
Bountyan posted...
Why doesn't Smogon let me use Darkrai if it doesn't have Dark Void or Hypnosis!?
Why doesn't Smogon let me use Venusaur in UU if it doesn't have Chlorophyll!?
Why doesn't Smogon let me use Kyogre in NU if all I use is Scary Face!?


Exactly what this would devolve into

And why Smogon said "***** it" and banned Blaziken entirely.
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#35MatezoidePosted 7/1/2013 6:21:23 PM(edited)
iKhanic posted...


The can of worms is already opened, it just depends on how far you are willing to go. Right now we've gone as far as banning abilities but not pokemon, but who's to say we can't draw the line somewhere else?

Personally, I think it's fine to ban specific Pokemon+Ability combos, but not to tier them. So only Uber, BL, and BL2 apply.

So if a pokemon is used enough to be in a certain tier, but a specific item or ability makes them broken, then it's okay to ban a combo. Venusaur is used enough to be in OU, and no particular ability or item makes it broken, so it stays there. If eviolite Chansey were used enough to be OU, then no particular combo would get banned.




Thats actually a good point (And the only one that Bountyan's post didnt nail), and if they did that, it would work exactly like that at first.


However, when Blaze Blaziken is unbanned, there will be complaining about bringing a mon down a few tiers, and i mean lots of it.


I guess that what i am trying to say is that, if complex unbans such as these do happen, people wont stop.

I dont see the difference between unbanning an ability + mon and unbanning a mon if it's level is lowered, at all. A line needs to be drawn, but it must apply to all pokemon, because consistency is extremely important.
#36GoldenSWarriorsPosted 7/1/2013 6:36:46 PM
I like how nobody used blaziken before it went uber and now that it did people are crying about it
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#37thebrawler56Posted 7/1/2013 6:38:58 PM
SMASHKING84 posted...
protect+speed boost is really broken.


Ninjask.
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#38bd43Posted 7/1/2013 7:52:33 PM
Matezoide posted...
iKhanic posted...


The can of worms is already opened, it just depends on how far you are willing to go. Right now we've gone as far as banning abilities but not pokemon, but who's to say we can't draw the line somewhere else?

Personally, I think it's fine to ban specific Pokemon+Ability combos, but not to tier them. So only Uber, BL, and BL2 apply.

So if a pokemon is used enough to be in a certain tier, but a specific item or ability makes them broken, then it's okay to ban a combo. Venusaur is used enough to be in OU, and no particular ability or item makes it broken, so it stays there. If eviolite Chansey were used enough to be OU, then no particular combo would get banned.




Thats actually a good point (And the only one that Bountyan's post didnt nail), and if they did that, it would work exactly like that at first.


However, when Blaze Blaziken is unbanned, there will be complaining about bringing a mon down a few tiers, and i mean lots of it.


I guess that what i am trying to say is that, if complex unbans such as these do happen, people wont stop.

I dont see the difference between unbanning an ability + mon and unbanning a mon if it's level is lowered, at all. A line needs to be drawn, but it must apply to all pokemon, because consistency is extremely important.


Except you can drop in inherent rule sets to regulate forward, much like the one behind not allowing complex bans.

It may seem silly and unruly to treat each pokemon+ability set as a separate being, but applying the right rules would save a ton of time and would maid for a larger, more engaging meta-game.
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#39LightningHawk90Posted 7/1/2013 8:00:24 PM
Matezoide posted...
Because that would open a can of worms.


If they unbanned Blaze Blaziken, why not go further? Why not unban/test stuff like Water Absorb Politoed in NU? Unnerve Tyranitar in UU? Swarm Galvantula on NU? Level 80 Arceus on OU? Giratina on OU with half the EVs? Overgrown Venusaur on UU? Eviolite-less Chansey on UU?

Unbanning Blaze Blaziken will bring too many problems, it is not worthy it.


Too many problems? or they're just too lazy to test all that stuff.
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#40pokemonfreak97Posted 7/1/2013 8:03:43 PM
Because Sand Veil anything is broken. Speed Boost Yanmega and Sharpedo don't have the same combination of Protect, Swords Dance, and a devastating pair of STABs.
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