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Dark-type confirmed to be weak to Fairy-type!

#81MyNameIsNotJen(Topic Creator)Posted 7/2/2013 9:54:36 PM
FuneralCake posted...
I love internet message board arguments!

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LOL
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#82MagikarpRulesPosted 7/2/2013 9:58:59 PM
It's only a matter of time before things get even uglier, then the topics fades away.
#83AccrovideogamesPosted 7/2/2013 10:17:01 PM
reaverz posted...
From what I've read, they apparently said something along the lines of "she seems strong against Ice, so maybe she's a Steel-type?" Did they really say it as concretely, as definitely, as you claim?

That's pretty much what they said and there's nothing confusing about it. Sylveon's type is super effective against Ice, which means that she could be Fighting, Steel, Rock, Fire or a new type. They already showed in the previous test that she wasn't Fighting, so that leaves Steel, Rock and Fire. Fire is already covered by Flareon so that leaves Steel and Rock only. They suggested that she might be Steel and to test their theory they tried Poison on her and it was effective. Thus, the only type remaining was Rock, which makes no sense. They kind of hinted at a new type. Also note that she picked up a magic wand with a fairy on one hand and a cellphone on the other, that was the hint towards the Fairy type.

reaverz posted...
I'm not really sure what you're saying near the end of your second paragraph. That nothing was said about Dark and Fighting being weak to Fairy by who?

Sorry for the confusion, I'll clear it up. The leak by Hiro said that Fairy is weak to Poison and Steel, immune to Dragon, super effective against Dragon, Dark, and Fighting, and Fire and Psychic-type Pokemon take half damage from it. It's kind of weird that only Dragon has a two-way effectiveness. It implies that Fairy deals normal damage to all of its weaknesses, that all the types weak to it except one deal normal damage to it and that all the types that resist it also deal normal damage to it. If that information is correct, I'm pretty sure that it's incomplete.

reaverz posted...
However, let me ask you something. If for some extraordinary reason, it turns out that Fairy is in fact NOT super effective on Ice, how would you explain that part of the Pokemon Smash skit? Just humor me for a moment. I'm interested to hear what you would think.

I would be pretty confused and pissed at Pokémon Smash for telling their fans lies.

Anyway, I'll try to find the logic behind the confirmed and rumored type match up for Fairy.

Dragon: Fairies have often been said to be able to defeat dragons in many fairy tales. Let's take the fairy godmothers in Sleeping Beauty for example, they were the only ones with the power to defeat the dragon. It's with a magic sword forged by the fairies that the prince was able to kill the dragon. The fairies' magic was also powerful enough to counter the evil sorceress' (which also happens to be a dragon) curse on the princess.

Ice: No idea.
Dark: No idea.
Poison: No idea.
Fighting: Magic beats brawn.
Steel: In many folklore, humans use iron to ward off fairies because it's like poison to them.
Fire: In many folklore, fire has the ability to drive fairies away.
Psychic: Rationality and intelligence are superior to superstition and stupidity.

I also added two other types that I think would make sense here.

Grass: In many folklore, certain plants were used to create protective charms against fairies.
Water: In many folklore, most fairies (there are exceptions) cannot cross water.
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#84jayman7Posted 7/2/2013 10:19:55 PM
The Pokemon Smash skit did not state that Fairy was super-effective against Ice (and that would be a really bad move on GameFreak's part if it did). The one thing it did state (or at least very, very strongly implied) was that Fairy was weak against Poison.

Also remember: Sylveon wasn't up against an Ice-type Pokemon, but an actual block of ice - more like a move than a Pokemon. It could have been intended to show that Fairy is resistant to Ice - we don't know Fairy's resistances even if we take the leak at 100% face value.
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#85AccrovideogamesPosted 7/2/2013 11:06:53 PM
jayman7 posted...
The Pokemon Smash skit did not state that Fairy was super-effective against Ice (and that would be a really bad move on GameFreak's part if it did). The one thing it did state (or at least very, very strongly implied) was that Fairy was weak against Poison. Also remember: Sylveon wasn't up against an Ice-type Pokemon, but an actual block of ice - more like a move than a Pokemon. It could have been intended to show that Fairy is resistant to Ice - we don't know Fairy's resistances even if we take the leak at 100% face value.

You don't know what you're talking about. They clearly said that Sylveon's type was super effective against Ice, then they said that her type could be Steel because it's super effective against Ice. And Pokémon Smash isn't Game Freak, how would it matter anyway if they gave away its weakness to Ice and its vulnerability to Poison? It's not like the type match up is classified information, it's no longer the case since Fairy was revealed. The reason why the trailer only said that Fairy is strong against Dragon is because they thought it was important to know and that it wouldn't be fun and exciting if they went and recited us the complete match up.

You do make a point about the leak not saying anything about Fairy's resistances except for its immunity against Dragon. It's unlikely that its only resistance is Dragon and this just shows how the leak is incomplete.

I like how they give us hints about a lot of things. First we had Sylveon which didn't look like it would belong to any of the types remaining except maybe the far-fetched idea that it may be Flying because it's the lightest evolution despite being the tallest and because of the kites, which also happen to be pretty similar to Skyla's ribbons. Then we had Pokémon Smash further hinting that Sylveon might be a new type because the only other possibility is Rock, which makes absolutely no sense. And now we have the newest trailer in which a Fairy move looked to be super effective against Dark. We've also been given hints on the starters' secondary types in the first trailer. Fennekin might be Psychic, Chespin Dark and Froakie Fighting.
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#86jayman7Posted 7/3/2013 12:13:24 AM(edited)
Accrovideogames posted...
They clearly said that Sylveon's type was super effective against Ice,


Yeah, except for the part where they didn't do that. When tested against Poison, a box came up reading "It's super-effective?!" - no such thing happened with the Ice test.

then they said that her type could be Steel because it's super effective against Ice.


Steel also resists Ice. In fact, it's the only type that hadn't already been ruled out at that point* that does so. Not true of being super-effective against Ice - Rock was still a possibility.

* - By this point, Fighting and all types already represented by Eeveelutions had already been ruled out, so no Fire, Water, or Ice.

Also, if Fairy is super-effective against Ice (and they don't make any non-Fairy-related changes to the type chart), it may quite possibly be the biggest misstep in the type chart shy of first-gen's Psychic dominance. Ice has enough weaknesses; what it needs are resistances. It's not even an intuitive choice (For example, Fairy being super-effective against Dark is intuitive, but unnecessary for balance as Dark is not dominating. Water being super-effective against Fire is intuitive. Fairy against Ice? Don't see how that's particularly intuitive, and it's very close to the worst choice they could make balance-wise.)
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#87AccrovideogamesPosted 7/3/2013 1:40:54 AM(edited)
I found more evidence that Fairy might be strong against Dark: http://www.pokemonxy.com/_ui/img/_en/art/Sylveon-Comp-Pokemon-X-and-Y.jpg

Sylveon seems to be giving a huge beating to Hydreigon so maybe it's four times effective against it. They wouldn't have chosen Hydreigon if it wasn't the case, there has to be a reason for it.

jayman7 posted...
Yeah, except for the part where they didn't do that. When tested against Poison, a box came up reading "It's super-effective?!" - no such thing happened with the Ice test.

Stop lying, it never said "It's super effective?!" during the poison test, it only said "effect preeminence" and that's a direct translation, there's no way you can word it differently. The super effective phrase in Japanese "Ko ka waba tsugunda!" and the one used for the poison test was "Koka batsugun!?", which means "effect preeminence". I can read Japanese, you clearly can't. Stop being obnoxious.

In the Ice test, the text was "Kori ni tsuyo itte koto wa haganetaipu ka na?", meaning "So it's strong against Ice, I wonder if it's a Steel type?". Based on that, we know for certain that Fairy is strong against Ice and that Poison is either normally or super effective against Fairy but I do believe that the latter is more likely since preeminence means "surpassing all others". Obviously, they didn't use the same phrases as seen in game.

jayman7 posted...
Also, if Fairy is super-effective against Ice (and they don't make any non-Fairy-related changes to the type chart), it may quite possibly be the biggest misstep in the type chart shy of first-gen's Psychic dominance. Ice has enough weaknesses; what it needs are resistances.

I agree with you on this matter.
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23, Male, Quebec
#88SpikeTbearPosted 7/3/2013 2:25:41 AM(edited)
Accrovideogames posted...
.


The Ice type will be even more useless than it already was if Fairy is strong against it. Introducing such incredibly illogical, unbalancing features would mean Gamefreak is really trying to kill its own game, and I don't believe that for a second. Until there is conclusive proof of this, we should not consider it to be true. And no, your suspect ability of being able to read Japanese is not conclusive proof or evidence of anything.
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#89AccrovideogamesPosted 7/3/2013 3:09:01 AM(edited)
SpikeTbear posted...
The Ice type will be even more useless than it already was if Fairy is strong against it. Introducing such incredibly illogical, unbalancing features would mean Gamefreak is really trying to kill its own game, and I don't believe that for a second. Until there is conclusive proof of this, we should not consider it to be true. And no, your suspect ability of being able to read Japanese is not conclusive proof or evidence of anything.

Say what you will but Pokémon Smash said that Fairy is strong against Ice. I'm not happy about it either and I believe that it makes absolutely no sense on a logical standpoint.

But wait... what if... it wasn't actually strong against Ice but resisting it? I know that it said "strong against ice" but the word strong can be synonym to enduring. I know that it makes less sense this way but you never know. It would also end with no type remaining for Sylveon (FIghting was shown to not be it and Water and Fire are already taken), thus revealing that it can only be a new type. I still don't see how fairies could resist ice though, I always considered myself well-versed in fairy tales, maybe I missed something very obscure. So anyway, what do you think of this match up:

Offensive
2x: Dragon, Fighting, Dark
0.5x: Steel, Poison, Fire, Water, Grass, Psychic

Defensive
2x: Poison, Steel, Psychic
0.5x: Ice, Fighting
0x: Dragon

The reason why it doesn't resist Dark is that fairies can be good or evil and the reason why it beats Dark is because good fairies always beat evil. Fire, water and plants are used as protection against fairies. Iron is poison to fairies. Rationality is superior to superstition. Fairies have always been stronger than dragons. Magic beats brawn. I guess even magic has its limits when faced against diseases. As for Ice, I have yet to find the logic behind it. Maybe it's because they can't cross water unless it's frozen? That's pretty far-fetched, I know.
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I'm French speaking.
23, Male, Quebec
#90game2002Posted 7/3/2013 8:24:43 AM
Accrovideogames posted...
SuperSaiyanTien posted...
So in other words (assuming you're right) why the hell didn't they just name the type "Light" instead of Fairy? Fairy is a stupid name and Light would fit...given that Dark is weak against it.

People saying that the Dark type has anything to do with darkness are f***ing annoying.

The last time I checked, certain Dark-type Pokemon do have relations to darkness. In the very least, they're related to nighttime. Umbreon, for example, gains a mysterious power when exposed to the moon's aura, and the moon only shows up when it's dark (nighttime). There's also the move Night Daze, which unlike Dark Pulse, doesn't say anything about "dark thoughts" in its description, but a "pitch-black shock wave".
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