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Intrinsic and extrinsic rewards, and IV breeding. (Why am I playing, again?)

#1ClassyOldHatPosted 7/4/2013 6:55:00 AM
So a couple months back, I saw this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h86g-XgUCA8

If the video is not working for you, or you don't want to watch it right now, here's the long and short of it: it asks why you play the games you do, and talks about the two types of rewards people get out of doing tasks in-game:

A game, or part of a game, is considered intrinsically rewarding if you find doing the task itself to be engaging.

A game is extrinsically rewarding if you perform the task to get some in-game item, award, achievement, or level/story progression.

They also say that a generally good barometer of this is to ask yourself: "If this task DIDN'T have an in-game reward, would I still be doing it?" If the answer is yes, then you've probably found something intrinsically rewarding.

Ideally, every moment of every game should be intrinsically rewarding, but we live in an imperfect world, so that will never really happen, especially considering what might be intrinsically rewarding to one person might not be for another. (The video's author, for example, dislikes turn based combat.) But we can still use this idea to see which games are worth sitting through the dull moments for, and for critiquing games.

I though it was pretty insightful, but I didn't really apply it to many of the games I was playing at the time, aside from deciding to stop going for a few achievements. Then, one day, as I was walking back and forth on Skyarrow bridge while watching videos on Youtube, I stopped and asked "Why am I doing this?" I was playing a video game, something that should be a leisure activity, done for it's own enjoyment, yet here I was, watching a Youtube video, while playing a game, because I was bored with the game.

Needless to say, I was IV breeding at the time. I got to thinking "Would I be walking back and forth on this bridge for hours on end if there wasn't a randomly assigned reward?" The answer, pretty obviously, is no.

And frankly, it's something I feel a lot of IV breeders, or those who defend how IVs are done currently, should ask themselves as well. You say you get a sense of satisfaction in the end from knowing you made your Pokemon "legit," but did you actually enjoy making the pokemon while you were making the pokemon?

If the answer is no then maybe we shouldn't be defending the system.

Personally, I feel GameFreak could stand to take a page out of World of Warcraft's book in this area: In WoW, when tournaments come up, Blizzard does not ask that it's players use their own accounts, they let players access EVERYTHING and let the player's strategy and knowledge of in-game mechanics decide the fight, not whether or not the player got a 1% drop from a boss that spawns once a week.

Imagine if in Wi-Fi, link, and Battle Tower battles, All Pokemon were automatically brought to level 100, and given max IVs for that battle alone With that, Pokemon could still be "unique" in game, while not being inferior in battle, and hidden power would not require significant change.

That's just one solution of many. I'm sure you could think of workable alternatives as well.
#2SorrowOfAcheronPosted 7/4/2013 7:03:53 AM
But then wouldn't the game just turn into, 'Catch wild [Pokemon name], take to the Battle Tower/Wi-Fi, and have your battle.'?
I can't find the word now, but it kind of defeats the main/a major point of the game, which is training etc
My opinion.
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#3Zadios765Posted 7/4/2013 7:06:39 AM
SorrowOfAcheron posted...
But then wouldn't the game just turn into, 'Catch wild [Pokemon name], take to the Battle Tower/Wi-Fi, and have your battle.'?
I can't find the word now, but it kind of defeats the main/a major point of the game, which is training etc
My opinion.


Well you don't get the best moves right away I would assume and just because you catch like a pidey from example it would be a level 100 pidgey not a pidgeot so the stats wouldn't be that great
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#4Zadios765Posted 7/4/2013 7:10:50 AM
Though I do agree Pokemon like many other rpgs is based on a concept of delayed gratification(stole that from my chorus teacher) but anyways the concept is you work hard now and then reap the benefits of your hard work later by using awesome pokemon and pwning your friends and family
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Be excellent to each other...Party on Dudes-wise words of Bill and Ted
#5ClassyOldHat(Topic Creator)Posted 7/4/2013 7:26:49 AM
The thing is though, EV training, and even level grinding, to an extent, can be intrinsically rewarding. You do have to actually think about "do I want to fight this Pokemon for these IVs," as well as "what are the best ways to get EXP without my Pokemon fainting." You actually do things when level grinding and EV training. And if you don't like them, GameFreak has been adding more and more ways to get them out of the way faster.

The same can't really be said for IV breeding which is just walking back and forth, or getting good IVs on legends, which is just "soft reset, throw balls, catch, check, repeat."
#6ClassyOldHat(Topic Creator)Posted 7/4/2013 3:47:47 PM
Bump.
#7scrappybristolPosted 7/4/2013 3:51:19 PM
ITT: 1st world problems.
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#8Hierarchy225Posted 7/4/2013 3:54:10 PM
scrappybristol posted...
ITT: 1st world problems.


Better than having 3rd world problems.

Anyway I agree completely OP. IV breeding isn't fun in even the most minute way. Hopefully Pokemon Amie will take care of the IV needs, and will be enjoyable.
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#9BountyanPosted 7/4/2013 3:56:05 PM
OP is a smart guy.

Everyone listen to him.
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#10ClassyOldHat(Topic Creator)Posted 7/4/2013 4:06:21 PM
scrappybristol posted...
ITT: 1st world problems.


Getting annoyed by 1st world problems is a 1st world problem. So, technically, are cancer, car accidents, poverty, economic unrest and other issues. They happen in the third world too, but that does not mean these are not problems the first world faces.

Those aren't very interesting facts.

But you didn't give a very interesting post.

That is also a first world problem.