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Do gen 1 pokemon need to be made stronger?

#1radred2004Posted 7/5/2013 1:48:51 AM
I think there are a lot of generation 1 pokemon that need to be made stronger. As the generations go on, there is a gradual strength in pokemon stats and growth and I feel that generation 1 needs to be brought up to par with some of its pokemon.
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#2dwdwdw6Posted 7/5/2013 2:00:20 AM
As new gen Pokemon get stronger, generation 1 Pokemon also get stronger.
#3iKhanicPosted 7/5/2013 2:22:36 AM
dwdwdw6 posted...
As new gen Pokemon get stronger, generation 1 Pokemon also get stronger.


I think TC's more referring to the fact that Gen 1 was before the Special split or the Physical Special split, so stats were built for pokemon in ways that now make them weaker than newer pokemon.
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#4BlackBloodDragoPosted 7/5/2013 2:33:13 AM
iKhanic posted...
dwdwdw6 posted...
As new gen Pokemon get stronger, generation 1 Pokemon also get stronger.


I think TC's more referring to the fact that Gen 1 was before the Special split or the Physical Special split, so stats were built for pokemon in ways that now make them weaker than newer pokemon.


Pretty much this, game mechanics have been evolving and new pokemon have been added according to these new mechanics. As a result Gen 1 pokemon are sorta lagging behind.
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#5AccrovideogamesPosted 7/5/2013 2:41:17 AM
iKhanic posted...
I think TC's more referring to the fact that Gen 1 was before the Special split or the Physical Special split, so stats were built for pokemon in ways that now make them weaker than newer pokemon.

Only the Special split nerfed Pokémon, for example Gyarados had his special attack drop to 60 when it was 100. However, this doesn't mean that they're weaker than Pokémon from other generations because new ones are made in comparison to how the first generation Pokémon look like after the split. As for the Special and Physical split for moves, it affected everyone, not just the ones for the first generation. And again, the argument I used for the Special split applies here as well. Sure, Flareon may not be good with special attacks like Flamethrower, but a lot of physical Fire moves were added to compensate this and it's just a matter of time until it can finally learn a decent one.
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#6iKhanicPosted 7/5/2013 2:48:58 AM
Accrovideogames posted...
iKhanic posted...
I think TC's more referring to the fact that Gen 1 was before the Special split or the Physical Special split, so stats were built for pokemon in ways that now make them weaker than newer pokemon.

Only the Special split nerfed Pokémon, for example Gyarados had his special attack drop to 60 when it was 100. However, this doesn't mean that they're weaker than Pokémon from other generations because new ones are made in comparison to how the first generation Pokémon look like after the split. As for the Special and Physical split for moves, it affected everyone, not just the ones for the first generation. And again, the argument I used for the Special split applies here as well. Sure, Flareon may not be good with special attacks like Flamethrower, but a lot of physical Fire moves were added to compensate this and it's just a matter of time until it can finally learn a decent one.


With regards to the Physical/Special split, I'm not saying it nerfed old pokemon, I'm saying it changed the way stats were arranged when pokemon were created. And the new EV system has something to do with it as well. The split pretty much caused one attacking stat to be irrelevant for most pokemon, and what we see is that after the split, more pokemon have stats allocated on one attacking stat over the other rather than balanced between the two. The latter was done more in earlier generations so that those pokemon had better coverage with physical types. It's by all means not a general rule, look at Alakazam and Basculin, but it did change the way pokemon were built.

I'd assume the special split did something similar
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#7bd43Posted 7/5/2013 2:49:24 AM
For the most part, no.

Many of these so called screwed pokemon aren't exactly screwed over that much. While many of the new, better competitive designs have a single focus, not all of them do. It just so happens that Gen 1 pokemon have more pokemon with less of a difference.

The other issue is. . . they were also screwed in Gen II and again and Gen III. More than half the pokemon out there and likely more than 40% even during Gen VI fit into that screwed block pretty snuggly.

Now, eventually, when/if they choose to go back to Kanto(and IMO, they should choose to do it as a *main* game to introduce a new Gen), maybe then they could sit down and alter a few that can't still get an evolution while hopefully making the Kanto dex more colorful. But for now: Meh.
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#8shyssterPosted 7/5/2013 4:47:43 AM
RBY Pokemon in general were affected more adversely by the transition to GSC. I think subsequent installments have for the most part given RBY Pokemon better options. Just look at Dragonite or Gyarados--pretty much useless in GSC (although Dragonite has its place as a pretty threatening mixed attacker)--but then ADV came around and gave them DRAGON DANCE and the rest is history
#9tiomastaPosted 7/5/2013 5:08:07 AM
Created pokemon don't "get stronger for every new gen". It's just that now they have a better overall knowledge of how things work, and what would a thing need to work for a certain purpose, than what they did when they made gen 1 because they obviously just invented it, so all the stats/types/moves/etc from a newer mon might make more sense than the ones you'd find for a lot of gen 1 pokes (you can actually tell what a newer poke's playstyle is by just looking at its base stats, for example).

The thing is that they're choosing to not retcon stats or make movepools from scratch or change types (aside from Steel/Fairy addition, so far). Some get a stronger evolution which is neat for the ones that get them. I wouldn't mind if they just went and altered a few things for some species (already third stage Poliwhirl, etc), but they look pretty confident that they can just add a couple of moves every time, an ability that might be a big deal or just completely useless...
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#10ZTIger5Posted 7/5/2013 5:30:08 AM
Agreed. They just feel weaker overall compared to gen 4 and 5 pokemon.
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