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How does team Flare's goal relate to the Life/Death?

#11MaetchPosted 7/11/2013 12:36:01 PM
patkelly929 posted...
Maetch posted...
It doesn't. More likely they'll be completely unassociated with the Legendaries and you'll just be there to stop their money-making schemes because you're in the area.


I think it's more than what we've been described. You don't need to disband an entire organization because they are trying successfully sell a Snuggie with some ill conceived get rich scheme. I would hate for someone to disband the company I work for because we are making money.

I think it's a facade for what they are really after.

Someone suggested that they may be after a treasure which they successfully steal, but then accidently release the cover Legendary because the treasure was sealing it up.
#12Firelion6593Posted 7/11/2013 12:37:29 PM
Maetch posted...
Because we know from how they backpedaled with Team Plasma that GameFreak does not like making their villains anything more than simple, incompetent crooks who are evil for no good reason.


That ignores the entire motivations of Aqua, Magma, and Galactic. Aqua and Magma weren't even evil, just horridly misguided. Remember, Aqua wanted to expand the sea to make room for more aquatic Pokemon, and Magma wanted to expand the land to make more room for land Pokemon and people too, IIRC. Remember when they wake up Kyogre/Groudon? Their reactions weren't, "yes the world is going to be destroyed!" they were "Oh ****, we done ****ed up BIG TIME."

Galactic on the other hand was sort of like Plasma. The surface goals and what the grunts believed were entirely different from what their leader really wanted. Cyrus wanted a world without emotion because he believed emotion caused strife between people. He wanted to end conflict, he just went about it in a way that would screw over the whole world.

As for Game Freak backpedaling on Team Plasma, they really didn't. The grunts who believed in N and his cause, freeing Pokemon or at least treating them right, are an entirely separate faction from those loyal to Ghetsis in BW2 and in conflict with that faction. Ghetsis being open about his goals isn't backpedaling, it's the logical continuation of the story where the trainer from B/W outed his real motivations for forming Team Plasma. He has no reason to hide said motivations this time around, so he doesn't.
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That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
#13MaetchPosted 7/11/2013 12:53:38 PM(edited)
Firelion6593 posted...
Maetch posted...
Because we know from how they backpedaled with Team Plasma that GameFreak does not like making their villains anything more than simple, incompetent crooks who are evil for no good reason.


That ignores the entire motivations of Aqua, Magma, and Galactic. Aqua and Magma weren't even evil, just horridly misguided. Remember, Aqua wanted to expand the sea to make room for more aquatic Pokemon, and Magma wanted to expand the land to make more room for land Pokemon and people too, IIRC. Remember when they wake up Kyogre/Groudon? Their reactions weren't, "yes the world is going to be destroyed!" they were "Oh ****, we done ****ed up BIG TIME."

Galactic on the other hand was sort of like Plasma. The surface goals and what the grunts believed were entirely different from what their leader really wanted. Cyrus wanted a world without emotion because he believed emotion caused strife between people. He wanted to end conflict, he just went about it in a way that would screw over the whole world.

As for Game Freak backpedaling on Team Plasma, they really didn't. The grunts who believed in N and his cause, freeing Pokemon or at least treating them right, are an entirely separate faction from those loyal to Ghetsis in BW2 and in conflict with that faction. Ghetsis being open about his goals isn't backpedaling, it's the logical continuation of the story where the trainer from B/W outed his real motivations for forming Team Plasma. He has no reason to hide said motivations this time around, so he doesn't.

SPOILERS below...

And yet those teams weren't above acts like kidnapping, armed robbery, blackmail, and more. The bosses may have had bigger plans, but the grunts only cared about being outright jerks for the heck of it.

As to Plasma, they started off as a team that was actually posing an interesting philosophical question in the Pokémon world, but then we learn that it's all a scam and they're just using it and their puppet king N as their excuse to steal as many Pokémon as they can. Then B2/W2 states that Ghetsis started the team and all the grunts were loyal to him from the beginning, further cheapening everything GameFreak tried to do with Plasma. Granted, N's presence was enough to inspire a few of the grunts to actually believe in his dream and repent, but the rest stayed with Ghetsis for no better reason than to keep living the grunt's life.
#14Firelion6593Posted 7/11/2013 1:03:51 PM
Maetch posted...
SPOILERS below...

And yet those teams weren't above acts like kidnapping, armed robbery, blackmail, and more. The bosses may have had bigger plans, but the grunts only cared about being outright jerks for the heck of it.

As to Plasma, they started off as a team that was actually posing an interesting philosophical question in the Pokémon world, but then we learn that it's all a scam and they're just using it and their puppet king N as their excuse to steal as many Pokémon as they can. Then B2/W2 states that Ghetsis started the team and all the grunts were loyal to him from the beginning, further cheapening everything GameFreak tried to do with Plasma. Granted, N's presence was enough to inspire a few of the grunts to actually believe in his dream and repent, but the rest stayed with Ghetsis for no better reason than to keep living the grunt's life.


Of course they resort to stuff like kidnapping, armed robbery, and blackmail. They're the bad guys. It is supposed to be clear they are the villains. A villain is not just defined by his methods, though, but also by his motivations. Yes, they're clearly not good people, but I won't say they're evil either.

The grunts may not have cared about being jerks-- they just follow orders. It's safe to assume they're receiving something in exchange for their service other than the chance to be a jerk-- otherwise, why stay? Remember, a lot of them talk about slowing you down and/or tiring you out when you go to fight their bosses. It doesn't work, but they're still doing it. And again, Teams Aqua and Magma were attempting to do what they thought was good, even through underhanded means. A lot of their grunts were likely on board with their message.

And yeah, we find out Team Plasma was a scam. That didn't cheapen the effect of the philosophical question. What cheapens it is that your Trainer, regardless of how you play, is always portrayed as loving and caring for their Pokemon in-story. This has been true since Gen I. Perhaps if there were more options it would work a bit better, but then again, you're supposed to be the hero.
It was always stated Ghetsis started Team Plasma. Hell, he found and raised N expressly for that purpose. He used N's dreams and wholesome personality to recruit people who believed in N's cause as N did, but not everyone who works for a cause believes in it. The grunts who kicked Munna in the start of B/W were such.

Ghetsis had better incentives to stay with his cause than N did to turn the grunts to his. The grunts were already accomplices to Plasma from two years before, and they were not looked upon with friendship. With nowhere else to go, they went to Ghetsis, who could offer them basic needs and a place of power should he succeed in his plans. Most people will do what lets them survive as best they can, and not what's right. Ghetsis offered those grunts the former.
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That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
#15bobstevens23123Posted 7/11/2013 1:12:59 PM
pretty obvious. Think about it, if they have the death poke they will make u pay them to avoid killing said person
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