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Why doesn't Smogon just ban Shadow Tag in UU and under?

#31piratecorePosted 7/18/2013 11:00:37 AM
"Complex bans" are not a bad thing. The server I play on primarily uses something called a bump list. It allows us to still use certain Pokemon (e.g., Blaziken) in lower tiers without their game changing abilities. This even applies to certain items. We have the ability to bump Chansey to Standard (OU) if it has eviolite, but remain in Restricted (UU) without it.

It opens up the field for giving (almost) every Pokemon a tier it can play in.
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#32piratecorePosted 7/18/2013 11:04:11 AM
Another great example is the absurd weather speed abuse ban. We limit teams to having ONE weather speed abuser with weather (regardless of it the team has drizzle/drought/etc on the team).

For example:
Politoed, Kingdra, 4 others is legal.
Politoed, Kingdra, Huntail is not.
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#33kaonohiokalaPosted 7/18/2013 12:04:07 PM
piratecore posted...
Another great example is the absurd weather speed abuse ban. We limit teams to having ONE weather speed abuser with weather (regardless of it the team has drizzle/drought/etc on the team).

For example:
Politoed, Kingdra, 4 others is legal.
Politoed, Kingdra, Huntail is not.


wat
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#34DarkKirby2500Posted 7/18/2013 12:38:37 PM(edited)
Rad_Dudesman posted...
Scott1187 posted...
Because Smogon are idiots.

They can ban specific situations, like having a pokemon with Swift Swim on the same team as a pokemon with Drizzle, or having Final Gambit on a pokemon in a 1v1 match, but they cant just ban Blaziken from using Speed Boost? They have to ban Blaziken entirely? What?


*sigh*

If they banned Speed Boost Blaziken, people would start making arguments for other Pokemon too.

Like:

"I should be allowed to use Overgrow Venusaur in UU!"
"Water Absorb Politoed and Flash Fire Ninetales in NU!"

It would be a complete and utter mess. It was much easier just to ban Blaziken.


Moody is banned on Bidoof but not Bidoof itself.
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#35piratecorePosted 7/18/2013 12:35:18 PM
kaonohiokala posted...
piratecore posted...
Another great example is the absurd weather speed abuse ban. We limit teams to having ONE weather speed abuser with weather (regardless of it the team has drizzle/drought/etc on the team).

For example:
Politoed, Kingdra, 4 others is legal.
Politoed, Kingdra, Huntail is not.


wat



Just illustrating why a pure swift swim/drizzle combination ban is lazy and dumb. I suppose I could have noted that Politoed has drizzle and both Kingdra and Huntail have swift swim. To reiterate:

On the server I play on:
Politoed (drizzle), Kingdra (swift swim), bidoof, bidoof, bidoof, bidoof is OU.
Politoed (drizzle), Kingdra (swift swim), Gorebyss (swift swim), bidoof, bidoof, is UBERS.

The combination of drizzle/swift swim isn't banned, having multiple swift swim users is bumped to ubers.
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#36TBVGFIZPosted 7/18/2013 1:03:30 PM
piratecore posted...
kaonohiokala posted...
piratecore posted...
Another great example is the absurd weather speed abuse ban. We limit teams to having ONE weather speed abuser with weather (regardless of it the team has drizzle/drought/etc on the team).

For example:
Politoed, Kingdra, 4 others is legal.
Politoed, Kingdra, Huntail is not.


wat



Just illustrating why a pure swift swim/drizzle combination ban is lazy and dumb. I suppose I could have noted that Politoed has drizzle and both Kingdra and Huntail have swift swim. To reiterate:

On the server I play on:
Politoed (drizzle), Kingdra (swift swim), bidoof, bidoof, bidoof, bidoof is OU.
Politoed (drizzle), Kingdra (swift swim), Gorebyss (swift swim), bidoof, bidoof, is UBERS.

The combination of drizzle/swift swim isn't banned, having multiple swift swim users is bumped to ubers.


I don't think those are smogon rules...
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#37Rad_DudesmanPosted 7/18/2013 1:04:45 PM
DarkKirby2500 posted...
Rad_Dudesman posted...
Scott1187 posted...
Because Smogon are idiots.

They can ban specific situations, like having a pokemon with Swift Swim on the same team as a pokemon with Drizzle, or having Final Gambit on a pokemon in a 1v1 match, but they cant just ban Blaziken from using Speed Boost? They have to ban Blaziken entirely? What?


*sigh*

If they banned Speed Boost Blaziken, people would start making arguments for other Pokemon too.

Like:

"I should be allowed to use Overgrow Venusaur in UU!"
"Water Absorb Politoed and Flash Fire Ninetales in NU!"

It would be a complete and utter mess. It was much easier just to ban Blaziken.


Moody is banned on Bidoof but not Bidoof itself.


*facepalm*

Moody is not banned on Bidoof.

Moody itself is banned.
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#38TBVGFIZPosted 7/18/2013 1:12:07 PM
Faust_8 posted...
TBVGFIZ posted...
It's the same, you would have to set a time limit (generation) for "new tools" and people would just complain about doing it on that generation and not a previous one.

And even if you sort that out, there is still a possibility that you would still end up with a lot of complex bans and having a lot of pokemon in two different tiers with certain conditions. It would be a mess and make competitive battling very confusing and inaccessible, and to make things worse the list of complex bans would just pile up with each new generation.

It's just not worth it to get into this mess so that a couple of pokemon can be OU or whatever...


Under my rules, Blaziken would be the ONLY Pokemon this would even apply to, so why are you assuming this would get used so much? It would only come into play if they do something as stupid as giving Blaziken Speed Boost. Nothing else they changed is worth enacting what I described.

They've banned one Ability+weather and they'd only have one Pokemon in two tiers. Why is this so awful?

And the guy talking about Venusaur...what? Yeah, Venusaur didn't have Chlorophyll before but Chlorophyll Venusaur is OU, so there's nothing wrong with this situation. My rules would only come into play when they give a currently-released Pokemon something that turns it Uber overnight. They don't come into play just because they made Venusaur OU since that's a good thing if you ask me.

Yeah, you can't use Venusaur in a lower tier now but the point is you still can use him outside Uber, so that's fine. If you have a huge beef with a Pokemon you like getting better (but not OP) then...seriously, just get over it. Use a different Grass type in NU or whatever, or put Venusaur in your OU team.


Well you didn't mention that it only applied to pokemon who were shot up to Ubers, although I'm sure a lot of people would complain about this restriction as well for whatever reason. This could work, but again, it seems like too much just for Blaziken in OU.
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#39Tatakai-No-KamiPosted 7/18/2013 1:16:12 PM
Rad_Dudesman posted...
*sigh*

If they banned Speed Boost Blaziken, people would start making arguments for other Pokemon too.

Like:

"I should be allowed to use Overgrow Venusaur in UU!"
"Water Absorb Politoed and Flash Fire Ninetales in NU!"

It would be a complete and utter mess. It was much easier just to ban Blaziken.


there is no proof that anything like that would have even happened. its just a silly excuse.

hell, speed boost blaziken isnt even broken. they should just let him back in OU for good.
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#40AurawhispererPosted 7/18/2013 1:24:54 PM
If they banned Speed Boost Blaziken, people would start making arguments for other Pokemon too.

Like:

"I should be allowed to use Overgrow Venusaur in UU!"
"Water Absorb Politoed and Flash Fire Ninetales in NU!"

It would be a complete and utter mess. It was much easier just to ban Blaziken.

And you know what that tells me? Smogon has no sign of leadership, telling these sheep "get back in line and deal with it or ptfo and play by someone elses rules."

If they are that worried about a out cry, they shouldnt be making rules to begin with
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