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I sincerely hope for the return of a true rival.

#31deadpool848Posted 7/25/2013 7:12:18 AM
Hugh copeted with you to become better than you, he also had an alterior motive to go on hisjourney (as in to find his sister's stolen purrloin). I kinda thought of him as a bro in that game since he not only battled you to test our strength agaisnt eachother, but we also worked together to take down team plasma. I never liked rivals like silver because all he did was make me more and more pissed at him, i didnt care for him. Other rivals that are friends but also compete with you to become stronger, and as well as you can relate to them in a way. I personaly loved the setup with Cherren/Biancca because you got to see how two people can be so different, and once you play B2/W2 you see how there differences played out for there future. Cherren wanted to become the strongest and battle strong oponents, so he became a gym leader, while biancca wanted to help pokemon, learn about them, and become stronger by being closer to understanding them, so she became a the proffessor's assistant. I want to see more of this, seeing how some of your brevious rivals ended up after there journeys were over.
#32TheCorruptAngelPosted 7/25/2013 12:49:18 PM
Lexifox posted...
TheCorruptAngel posted...
I kind of like the idea of having multiple rivals but I would prefer it if they were completely unrelated. Gen 5 had interesting concepts with the thing you had going with Bianca and Cheren, but it felt a little boring because you all knew each other.


What about Bianca and Cheren knowing each other makes things boring? And you DO realize N is a rival, right?.


I'm not sure. I mean, it was still different compared to what we'd gotten before, and Cheren and Bianca's individual subplots were interesting too. As rivals, though, they seemed a little too sterile for my liking.

N isn't really a rival. I like to think of him as one since he shares the traits of a rival, and if he's classified as one then my argument from before is moot. It's hard to talk about N's status as a rival, and I've seen people arguing on both sides and still can't quite decide.
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#33LeoAlephPosted 7/26/2013 8:29:47 PM
A jerk and a nice friendly rival together would be nice...
#34MagikarpRulesPosted 7/26/2013 8:55:59 PM
Genius_Sage posted...
MagikarpRules posted...
A friendly rival can make you grow too. And I think Blue is grossly overrated.


Not really... He's not evil like in gen 2, he's not pathetic like both Wally and the opposite gender in gen 3, he's a joke like Barry, he's not mediocre like Cherin. Bianca has a nice ass and hips so she gets a pass.

Blue is just awesome at what he does and he knows it, he is the best kind of rival. Not emo, just awesome.


Blue is overrated. Here's why:

People insist he battled you at the worst times. We must have played different games, because you, except for the S. S. Anne, always had the chance of healing before battling him, unless I am forgetting something.

People latch on him beating the gyms before you do, and being already champion when you beat the Elite 4. However, you can curbstomp him in every battle and he still acts as if he were the better trainer. And the first thing he says when you beat him yet once more at the end of the game is how brief his reign was and whines that it's not fair.

Being a smug jerk doesn't make him a good rival at all. I honestly saw Barry as more challenging than Blue. And Cheren had some shades from Blue, although at least he wasn't a jerk the whole time.
#35sonicfanaticjtbPosted 7/27/2013 11:23:53 AM
Lux_Sentou posted...


Sick to death of "Hey I'm your best friend!" type rivals.


If, "Hey, I'm your best friend!" rivals is what we need in order to have rivals that have some likability to 'em and actually have some form of character development, then I'll take 'em over rivals like Blue and pre-HG/SS Silver every time.
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#36CakeOfLiesPosted 7/27/2013 11:26:55 AM
I just want a rival that isn't like Barry.
He was just awful.
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#37wheeling_gamerPosted 7/27/2013 12:07:05 PM
I want a rival that gets alternate dialogue when beating you, actually stands a chance against you, or, heck, even if a few hopeless boss fights here and there. It's kind of annoying when your rival tries to get stronger and you can still easily completely thrash him/her with good type matches and trained Pokémon.

Furthermore, it completely destroys Silver’s character in a way because his comments become hypocritical and don't hold much weight. He calls you weak, and you constantly prove him wrong, but what if those comments were actually true? What if love and trust were not the keys to victory, and Silver’s approach using power was the true way to win?

And poor Bianca just seems like someone who the player’s supposed to feel sorry for. What if proving she could beat you and possibly Cheren increased her self-esteem and made her stronger? What if she decided to take the route to the Champion? Would the scene with her father play out any differently if she was confident and had more strength?

I know you get alternate dialogue if you lose the first battle, but every other battle is treated as a regular loss. It's annoying because there's potential for so much more. Maybe there could even be multiple endings depending on how well you did against the rival.
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#38LexifoxPosted 7/27/2013 12:31:38 PM
TheCorruptAngel posted...
N isn't really a rival. I like to think of him as one since he shares the traits of a rival, and if he's classified as one then my argument from before is moot. It's hard to talk about N's status as a rival, and I've seen people arguing on both sides and still can't quite decide.


N is a rival. He regularly appears to challenge you. He considers you his greatest challenge. He seeks to trump you in a battle of Pokemon and truth/ideals.

wheeling_gamer posted...
I want a rival that gets alternate dialogue when beating you, actually stands a chance against you, or, heck, even if a few hopeless boss fights here and there. It's kind of annoying when your rival tries to get stronger and you can still easily completely thrash him/her with good type matches and trained Pokémon.

And poor Bianca just seems like someone who the player’s supposed to feel sorry for. What if proving she could beat you and possibly Cheren increased her self-esteem and made her stronger? What if she decided to take the route to the Champion? Would the scene with her father play out any differently if she was confident and had more strength?

I know you get alternate dialogue if you lose the first battle, but every other battle is treated as a regular loss. It's annoying because there's potential for so much more. Maybe there could even be multiple endings depending on how well you did against the rival.


"Hopeless boss fights" are annoying and generally a bad feature, especially for this type of game. They'd be difficult to implement outside of something like suddenly giving them 20 more levels on you because you can always grind to defeat them or because it throws off their ability to challenge you at a later point because they're likely that more powerful.

Having alternative dialogue or events play out differently for losing? Sure. Just don't punish the player. No one likes to be railroaded, as the constant "omg gen 5 too linear" threads should tell you.

Furthermore, it completely destroys Silver’s character in a way because his comments become hypocritical and don't hold much weight. He calls you weak, and you constantly prove him wrong, but what if those comments were actually true? What if love and trust were not the keys to victory, and Silver’s approach using power was the true way to win?


Then the impossible will have happened. Pokemon, as a franchise, tries to instill values of friendship and co-operation into you. This is why in every game, the PC is implied to be friendlier than most, or treat their Pokemon with more respect and compassion. Blue is defeated because he lacked respect and love for his Pokemon. Silver is defeated because he doesn't have compassion and respect for his Pokemon. Colress realizes that his machines can't enhance a Pokemon's strength like love and friendship can. Repeat.

If you want to give Silver's "strength through shut up and win you wussies" motto some credence, there's the fact that he wipes the floor with gym leaders, Team Rocket grunts, and apparently everyone at Victory Road.
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#39sonicfanaticjtbPosted 7/27/2013 1:42:38 PM
wheeling_gamer posted...

And poor Bianca just seems like someone who the player’s supposed to feel sorry for. What if proving she could beat you and possibly Cheren increased her self-esteem and made her stronger? What if she decided to take the route to the Champion? Would the scene with her father play out any differently if she was confident and had more strength?



Um... She was already showing signs of a more confident character by that scene. At the very beginning, Bianca more or less runs away from home, avoiding confrontation. By that scene, she stands up for herself and confronts her father.

When you think 'bout it, Bianca's probably the most well developed character in the pokémon series. Which is why I like her so much. I'm actually given a reason to give a damn 'bout her as a character and want to see her throughout the entire game. She's more than an annoying brat that's unfortunately worth good experience. She's a character that shows growth throughout the game with an interesting character arc that you can relate to. This isn't a journey to become the best there ever was for her like it is for you and Cheren. This is a journey to determine what she wants to do in life. That's something that we all have to go through at some point in our lives.
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"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"
"I don't give a damn what other people think. What do ya think about that?"