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Name a type circle of balance

#11MyNameIsNotJenPosted 7/26/2013 8:58:48 AM
EDIT
Why is it people keep insisting that Dark, Psychic, Fighting is a circle when it's not? A perfect full circle are the following...

Grass > Water > Fire
Poison > Grass > Ground
Rock > Fire > Steel
Fighting > Rock > Flying

& if we want to take it up a notch with a squared circle..
Bug > Grass > Water > Fire
Rock > Flying > Grass > Ground
Rock > Fire > Grass > Ground
Roc > Bug > Grass Ground

All types are SE to the next type and 0.5 resists it also.

Dark/Psychic/Fighting is NOT one of those..
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#12Joebot800Posted 7/26/2013 8:59:11 AM
http://www.psypokes.com/lab/battlechart.php
#13jimrichardsPosted 7/26/2013 9:32:45 AM
People never consider all of the factors when devising alternate "starter circles". The current one has the following characteristics:

-When read in one direction, each type is super effective against the one following it.
-When read in the opposite direction, each type is not very effective against the type following it.
-Each type is not very effective against itself.

Using these three qualifiers, there are no viable alternate circles. However, by dropping the third characteristic, we then allow several options to exist, assuming Dragon/Dragon/Dragon and Ghost/Ghost/Ghost don't count:

-Fighting/Rock/Flying
-Grass/Ground/Poison
-Fire/Steel/Rock

Of these, the first is the only one that is balanced. Why? Each type, in addition to the two characteristics carried over from the original circle, is neutral to itself. In the other two options, two of the three types resist themselves (Grass/Poison/Fire/Steel) while the other is neutral to itself (Ground/Rock). As a result, the types have different parameters and are thus unbalanced.

In conclusion, Fighting/Rock/Fighting is the most viable alternate starter circle. Until, of course, we know exactly how Fairy figures into things. Furthermore, Dark/Psychic/Fighting is a terrible idea and you people should stop trying to justify it.
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#14GoldenSWarriorsPosted 7/26/2013 9:49:53 AM
MyNameIsNotJen posted...
EDIT
Why is it people keep insisting that Dark, Psychic, Fighting is a circle when it's not? A perfect full circle are the following...

Grass > Water > Fire
Poison > Grass > Ground
Rock > Fire > Steel
Fighting > Rock > Flying

& if we want to take it up a notch with a squared circle..
Bug > Grass > Water > Fire
Rock > Flying > Grass > Ground
Rock > Fire > Grass > Ground
Roc > Bug > Grass Ground

All types are SE to the next type and 0.5 resists it also.

Dark/Psychic/Fighting is NOT one of those..


Psychic is weak to bug/dark. Fighting resists that. Fighting is weak to psychic, dark resists that. Dark is weak to fighting, psychic resists that.

The circle also goes the other way. Psychic is weak to ghost/dark, dark resists that. Dark is weak to bug, fighting resists that. Fighting is weak to psychic, psychic resists that.

Defensively, it works.
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#15Faust_8Posted 7/26/2013 10:00:36 AM
jimrichards posted...
People never consider all of the factors when devising alternate "starter circles". The current one has the following characteristics:

-When read in one direction, each type is super effective against the one following it.
-When read in the opposite direction, each type is not very effective against the type following it.
-Each type is not very effective against itself.

Using these three qualifiers, there are no viable alternate circles. However, by dropping the third characteristic, we then allow several options to exist, assuming Dragon/Dragon/Dragon and Ghost/Ghost/Ghost don't count:

-Fighting/Rock/Flying
-Grass/Ground/Poison
-Fire/Steel/Rock

Of these, the first is the only one that is balanced. Why? Each type, in addition to the two characteristics carried over from the original circle, is neutral to itself. In the other two options, two of the three types resist themselves (Grass/Poison/Fire/Steel) while the other is neutral to itself (Ground/Rock). As a result, the types have different parameters and are thus unbalanced.

In conclusion, Fighting/Rock/Fighting is the most viable alternate starter circle. Until, of course, we know exactly how Fairy figures into things. Furthermore, Dark/Psychic/Fighting is a terrible idea and you people should stop trying to justify it.


1) I always feel like this argument is nitpicking details that ultimately don't matter. It's not like past starters don't mess with the balance of the trio; Torterra can hit BOTH the other starters with SE damage from just his secondary type, for example.

2) We already have a reliable source that says the secondary types of the Gen VI starters will be Psychic, Dark, and Fighting so they're at least good enough to be half the of the circle. If this is true it's not like GameFreak was like "Oh no, Fennekin's Psychic attacks will be COMPLETELY useless against Chespin, instead of only half effective! GAMEBREAKER!"

Even now with Water, Fire, and Grass, you don't use your STAB against the foe that resists it, you use something else. So it doesn't matter if it's a resistance or immunity anyway. There is no real reason why each type MUST all be neutral or half-effective against its weakness; you're just saying that because that's what Fire, Water, and Grass are.

I actually think GF should shake things up eventually by having starters with unrelated types. They can't keep up Fire/Water/Grass forever without it becoming boring and exhausting all the feasible type combinations.
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In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.
#16jayman7Posted 7/26/2013 10:02:34 AM
Why Psychic, Fighting, and Dark starters would never, ever, ever, everest work, ever, by jayman7.

Many people believe that the starters should get Psychic, Fighting, and Dark types, possibly as dualtypes. And these people are WRONG!!!one!eleventy-one! Let me outline the reasons why this will never happen with the least amount of mocking sarcasm possible.

First of all, the whole point of the starters is that they need to be perfectly balanced! Even the slightest imbalance in the starters would throw off the whole metagame! That's why starters never pick up second types, especially not second types that make them more resistant to their resistant type, more weak to their weak type, or even give them some sort of extra advantage over one of the other starters. Can you imagine? A Grass-type starter picking up a Ground type to do some sort of reverse triangle thing that could never ever happen? A Fire-type picking up Flying to make it even more resistant to Grass? Ludicrousness!

After all, isn't the whole point of the starters to be balanced? That's why there isn't some jerk rival who picks a starter who yours is weak to. Imagine that, a scenario where the player always loses. That's not balanced at all!

I mean, sure, you still have the concept of Psychic beating Fighting, and Fighting beating Dark, and Dark beating Psychic, but they're not all the same degree! And that's not balanced! Think of it this way: would you play a game where you can (randomly) play Rock, Paper, or Scissors, where Rock can CRUSH Scissors, and Scissors can CUT PAPER TO SHREDS... but Paper can only cover Rock? Seriously, covering Rock? How would that hurt it? Is it like some sort of organic breathing rock? And some kind of airtight sealed paper? That's ridiculous. Because Paper's victory over Rock is so much weaker than the other victories, such a game could never be balanced, and no one would ever play it.

And we all know GameFreak would never acknowledge such a triangle. I mean, when you play Black 1 and White 1, and you fight those two trainers that teach about Triple and Rotation battles in Opelucid City, one of them uses a Fire-type, a Water-type, and a Grass-type. And does the other use a Psychic-type, a Fighting-type, and a Dark-type? Of course not! That would be imbalanced, and that one little thing would ruin the game!

And think of all the kiddies who play with only their starter and load up on STAB moves! How would they ever get through the game if they picked a Psychic-type? It's not like there are any Pokemon out there immune to Grass or Fire or Water that could hinder their progress now. Won't someone think of the kiddies and their utter lack of strategy for a minute?

So in conclusion, Psychic, Fighting, and Dark would never work; people who don't understand sarcasm are fun to laugh at; inevitably someone is going to take this essay seriously anyway; and Psychic, Fighting, and Dark would never work. The end.

(By the way, Pokebeach's stunningly-accurate-so-far leak says we are getting Psychic, Fighting, and Dark starters this game... as dualtypes at least.)
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#17jimrichardsPosted 7/26/2013 10:07:03 AM
jayman7 posted...
stuff

You. I like you.
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I would prefer to be known as BlackWaltzTheThird, or just Waltz for short.
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#18Hanon623Posted 7/26/2013 10:11:29 AM
I don't like psychic type much but would very much like dark ghost type starters, dark ghost fighting seems like a good circle not perfect but pretty balanced fighting gets the worst of it but is the better offensive type in general so it should be fine. One resists itself one is se to itself and ones neutral
#19Faust_8Posted 7/26/2013 10:11:36 AM
jimrichards posted...
jayman7 posted...
stuff

You. I like you.


This.
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In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.
#20FenriLokiPosted 7/26/2013 10:25:55 AM
Fighting/Dark/Psychic doesn't make a perfect trio. Sorry if someone already said/pointed this out.

Dark is completely immune to psychic. Breaks the circle.

Miracle Eye makes Psychic neutral against Dark. Breaks the cycle.
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