This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

I don't understand all the hate for IVs

#51Ray GunPosted 8/17/2013 1:56:30 PM
because cartridge play is subpar and i'd like the actual game to be improved

that's not a benefit of diversity, you have listed no benefits at all that are anything other than "i want it to be difficult for other players even though they can just hack around it"
---
rg
#52ExaetellusPosted 8/17/2013 2:32:05 PM
gunsndroses posted...
Exaetellus posted...
Well since IVs exist and there is no 3DS AR, expect the metagame this gen to be 99% simulator.


Pokegen.


That requires an AR to use. >.>
---
Drink up to loneliness.
#53CakeOfLiesPosted 8/17/2013 2:36:21 PM
Exaetellus posted...
gunsndroses posted...
Exaetellus posted...
Well since IVs exist and there is no 3DS AR, expect the metagame this gen to be 99% simulator.


Pokegen.


That requires an AR to use. >.>


No it doesn't. It requires an internet connection and the A button so you can enter the GTS.
---
I'm not easily impressed; I'm usually oblivious to whatever's in front of me.
Pokemon White 2 FC: 3139-7420-3142 - THIEF
#54RatheVPosted 8/17/2013 2:36:40 PM
Exaetellus posted...
gunsndroses posted...
Exaetellus posted...
Well since IVs exist and there is no 3DS AR, expect the metagame this gen to be 99% simulator.


Pokegen.


That requires an AR to use. >.>


Err, no it doesn't. I'm not sure if the rules on this site prohibit me from giving details or not, but you definitely don't need an AR.

That said, I would be bit cautious on the legitimacy of any pokemon produced with Pokegen. I'd imagine a few bugs and quirks would be present in the initial release, and maybe X and Y will finally make it harder or impossible to spoof the GTS altogether.
#55ExaetellusPosted 8/17/2013 2:47:36 PM
CakeOfLies posted...
Exaetellus posted...
gunsndroses posted...
Exaetellus posted...
Well since IVs exist and there is no 3DS AR, expect the metagame this gen to be 99% simulator.


Pokegen.


That requires an AR to use. >.>


No it doesn't. It requires an internet connection and the A button so you can enter the GTS.


Oh that one. I usually just make the code for my box. Though at that point they'd still have to generate a way to tamper with the GTS.
---
Drink up to loneliness.
#56DutchKrakenPosted 8/17/2013 2:54:37 PM
The only thing I would give IVs for being good is for personality trait, since it would then add in some uniqueness to each Pokemon, however, the downside is it disrupts battle efficiency.

Sure, I understand you feel happy that your Pokemon has 31 stats in Speed and Special Attack, and a good Nature, but that is not that difficult, it's obnoxious but not completely impossible. However, If you are using a Special Attacker, you might want to use Hidden Power, well TC? How did that Jolteon fare out in that department then?

HP and both Defenses can mean the difference between a win and a loss as well. 31 HP is somewhat a lot that can save you, combine that with 31 defense and you got yourself some importance.

For example, Jolteon mostly walks around with HP Ice, for that you need a Speed IV of 30, not 31... so sorry there buddy :).

EVs, Natures and Abilities, are very easy to manipulate, you just need to know how, for EVs it is just a form of advanced training, and Natures/Abilities can be easy as well.

For Natures, you can use a Pokémon that has Synchronize as an ability, pretty easy to catch, and leave it there on the first slot. In breeding you can use an Everstone instead.

For abilities, well, there are only 2 and 1 dream world, which is just a matter of luck, but since the chances are so low, out of the 10 eggs, surely 1 has the Ability you want.

For IVs, the most manipulation you can do is using Power items, But this just ensures 1 IV stat been passed down, there are still 5 others to take into consideration.
---
X360: QuakeNLD - Steam: kraken.nld
Currently playing: Borderlands 2 (PC) - Waiting: Watchdogs (PS4), Pokemon X/Y (3DS)
#57tallgeeseIVPosted 8/17/2013 3:26:28 PM
DutchKraken posted...
For IVs, the most manipulation you can do is using Power items, But this just ensures 2 IV stat been passed down, there are still 4 others to take into consideration.


fix'd

kinda half'n'half on the subject, I don't think they are really necessary to the game but give an interesting diversity.
I don't think they need to be removed, but a more reliable way to manipulate them would be a great since even with Power Items, you need to get that 31 IV in the first place to pass it on.
---
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9742/fodderkg8.png
-_-'
#58ClassyOldHatPosted 8/17/2013 3:59:28 PM
tallgeeseIV posted...
DutchKraken posted...
For IVs, the most manipulation you can do is using Power items, But this just ensures 2 IV stat been passed down, there are still 4 others to take into consideration.


fix'd

kinda half'n'half on the subject, I don't think they are really necessary to the game but give an interesting diversity.
I don't think they need to be removed, but a more reliable way to manipulate them would be a great since even with Power Items, you need to get that 31 IV in the first place to pass it on.


No, only one Power Item's effect is ever applied at a time. If two items are applied at once, which item gets to pass is chosen at random. This does not exclude the possibility of the second parent's Powered IV from being chosen at random afterward, which helps spread this misconception. I've used two power items and received only one 31 IV enough times to confirm it.

Besides, for all the praise the power item addition gets, it really hasn't changed how to control IVs at all. We've had parents passing three IVs since gen II, the Power Items just make it so that if you are willing to settle for having only specific IVs be perfect, you can have one of those three IVs be something you pick, while leaving the rest to luck, like every other generation.
#59VintageRonJohn(Topic Creator)Posted 8/17/2013 4:07:58 PM
ClassyOldHat posted...
No, only one Power Item's effect is ever applied at a time. If two items are applied at once, which item gets to pass is chosen at random. This does not exclude the possibility of the second parent's Powered IV from being chosen at random afterward, which helps spread this misconception. I've used two power items and received only one 31 IV enough times to confirm it.

Besides, for all the praise the power item addition gets, it really hasn't changed how to control IVs at all. We've had parents passing three IVs since gen II, the Power Items just make it so that if you are willing to settle for having only specific IVs be perfect, you can have one of those three IVs be something you pick, while leaving the rest to luck, like every other generation.


I was waiting for someone to mention this. If I recall correctly though, not all of the IVs come from the parents, and it's less likely that Defense will get passed down, so using a power item for defense makes the most sense.

But yeah, the way to do it is Everstone on the parent with the right nature, clamp down one IV, and make sure that the pokes you're breeding each have 2+ perfects (preferably no overlap on the IV you control, and overlap on the ones you aren't).
---
Conduit 2: RonJohn 3868-8419-8160 [D-S]Jolt 4986-1435-0700
The Conduit: RonJohn 3309-2472-4741
#60ClassyOldHatPosted 8/17/2013 4:55:25 PM
VintageRonJohn posted...
I was waiting for someone to mention this. If I recall correctly though, not all of the IVs come from the parents, and it's less likely that Defense will get passed down, so using a power item for defense makes the most sense.

But yeah, the way to do it is Everstone on the parent with the right nature, clamp down one IV, and make sure that the pokes you're breeding each have 2+ perfects (preferably no overlap on the IV you control, and overlap on the ones you aren't).


So basically, no matter how much skill or knowledge you demonstrate, or how much time or effort you spend, another player can put in less and still get objectively better results if s/he just gets lucky.

And this is a system you want to encourage? This kinda thing might be fine in a single player game, where you can rely on strategy or grinding to overcome your disadvantages, but in a multiplayer game, that extremely unbalanced, and doesn't add any real diversity. Real diversity comes from choices where options are equal.

Natures add diversity, because you don't get something for nothing. You either have all stats be normal, or get a boost for one stat in exchange for lowering another. Abilities and moves and EVs do the same, in different ways. And even better, all of these things are almost 100% controllable, or have 50-50 chances that don't waste nearly as much time for the player.

IVs, however, offer no choice. If you have the option to have all 31s in every stat (barring the obligatory exceptions where having Sp. atk or Speed at zero, or a certain Hidden Power), there's no trade off, no real thought to it, and thus no choice. It's like how you technically have a choice to bring level 1 Pokemon to a battle; you could do it, but unless you're running FEAR, there's no real thought about the "choice;" why bring a level 1 when you can bring a level 100? And unlike your Pokemon's level, IVs are decided apart from player involvement, unless you hack. Even what IVs you can pass are decided by the RNG allowing you to have parents with good IVs in the first place.