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Some "Facts" about Starters from PGS

#1MeepleLardiclePosted 8/19/2013 5:46:36 AM
Didn't see any topic about this, I apologize if redundant, but here we go!

I put "Facts" in caps because it's most extrapolated info followed by educated guessing based on what was seen; given possible hidden factors like unknown special abilities, items, Evs, etc., some of this info may be off, hence why we can't say it's 100% confirmed. This is based off what was seen.

Anyway, first HP:

Chespin has 83 at level 30. Fennekin and Froakie have about 73 each. You can find videos, screen shots, etc. of this, too lazy to find them myself.
People on Serebii have roughly calculated that to be 58 for Chespin and 41-42 for the other two. For those wondering, Tepig has the highest base HP at 65, followed by Turtwig at 55, and Charmander/Cyndaquill has the lowest at 39 I believe, so these values seem fairly reasonable. I suspect the real values are somewhere in that ballpark.


Next off, Speed:
One thing that makes this hard is looking at the demos, most involve level 30 Pokemon fighting level 20 Pokemon...obviously, that doesn't tell us much. However, there is but one exception to all of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVMaVCzUBAA&feature=c4-overview&list=UUWYIHqZHMHkrLp08LfnI9Wg

Shows level 50 Pokemon and it shows all 3 starters. We can see that Froakie goes before both Chespin and Fennekin, proving it is the fastest of the 3. Fennekin vs. Chespin is harder to say, people suspect Fennekin will be faster due to the design. Also worth noting Chespin went last against Helioptile, though we can't say if that's because Helioptile is fast, Chespin is slow, or a combination of both.

Either way, it's safe to assume Froakie is the fastest.


Offensive stats:
We can't see how much damage Fennekin did to Froakie because of the guy's head blocking the screen, we just know Froakie survived a Psybeam, which is completely normal for the most part. Froakie uses nothing but a Super Effective move on Fennekin, and a NVE move on Chespin. Chespin KOs Froakie with Solar Beam after Froakie took a Psybeam...nothing out of the ordinary here.

What stands out, however, is Chespin OHKOs a Helioptile with Wood Hammer, likely boosted by Overgrow. Now, it's possible Helioptile is frail, hence the OHKO, but I'd think it'd have to be very frail for that to be the case alone. Chances are, Chespin has a good Attack score.


Defensive Stats:
Froakie died to Psybeam and Solar Beam; very normal stuff, regardless of defensive stats barring extremes. Not much to really extrapolate here.

Fennekin survived a Hydro Pump from Froakie...yes, that's Hydro Pump, not Water Gun. Considering Fennekin's HP is not impressive, chances are his Special Defense is very good.

What about Froakie's SpA just being subpar? Possible, but it did nearly 3 shot Chespin, who resists it. Failing to OHKO a Fire type, but nearly 3 shotting a Grass type implies it's defensive stats playing a role here. Chespin, as a result, likely has lowish SDef.

Chespin also survived a Parabolic Shock after 2 Hydro Pumps, dying to it's own Wood Hammer recoil. I forget if Parabolic Shock was confirmed physical or special though.


tl;dr for all stats:
Chespin: Good HP, Good Attack, questionable Special Defense, seemingly slow
Fennekin: Iffy HP, good Special Defense
Froakie: Iffy HP, Good Speed, passable at least Special Attack
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#2Lucis_FerrePosted 8/19/2013 5:59:00 AM
Very interesting.

And for future reference, Parabolic Charge is Special.
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#3Doctor_SpankyPosted 8/19/2013 6:02:08 AM
Excellent post
#4TheMasterTurtlePosted 8/19/2013 6:03:14 AM
Good, Froakie is shaping up nicely.
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#5gladwyn101Posted 8/19/2013 6:51:11 AM
Now hold on, I think you jumping to conclusions. We have no way of knowing the EVs or IVs of those Pokemon. Froakie could've also been using a priority move to go first. Then there could be hold items. Fennekin could've been holding that berry that reduces super-effective Water attacks.
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#6MeepleLardicle(Topic Creator)Posted 8/19/2013 7:09:25 AM(edited)
gladwyn101 posted...
Now hold on, I think you jumping to conclusions. We have no way of knowing the EVs or IVs of those Pokemon. Froakie could've also been using a priority move to go first. Then there could be hold items. Fennekin could've been holding that berry that reduces super-effective Water attacks.


A number of those things can be easily deconfirmed. I'll cover each one at a time:

EVs/IVs: Covered. As I said, we have no way of being specific, but I think for demo purposes, there would be set IVs about equal, and probably 0 EVs. This is a demo afterall, no reason to skew facts.

Froakie Priority moves: He uses Hydro Pump and Bounce, neither are Priority Moves. Try again.

Hold Items: Hold Items have animations when they kick in, which we see none of that. This highly suggests that's not the case.


Something to remember: This is a demo. It's not going to have these elaborate, in-depth factors. They're not going to shove spontaneous hold items just to fool you. If anything, they'd have no hold items. I don't know why some people seem so adamant about trying to disprove observational data. It's almost like it offends them when people speculate based on info and need an excuse to prove them wrong. I've seen this all the damn time, and often those people end up looking like fools in the end.


The one thing I do find questionable is I didn't see Overgrow kick in with Chespin as it would have in Gen 5. This could be for the following reasons:

-Demo Build doesn't have "special ability activated" indicator implemented yet
-Gen 6 removed this indicator for whatever reason
-Chespin doesn't have Overgrow, thereby bucking the trend of starters (if he doesn't, I suspect Froakie and Fennekin won't have Torrent and Blaze)
-It DID state it kicked in through the text box, but the guys head blocked the indicator, so we couldn't see it.


Hard to say based on any of this though. Worth noting Serebii doesn't have Special Abilities indicated for any of them. You'd think SOMEONE would have pointed it out by now, but it seems people were being lazy.


Also, something I noticed watching the video again:

Froakie's Hydro Pump does about 40% to Chespin, which is significant for a NVE attack, implying Chespin's Special Defense isn't the greatest. Parabolic Shock does fail to KO after it, but Parabolic Shock is significantly weaker than Hydro Pump, and Helioptile could just have worse offensive stats than Froakie to boot. Both moves are resisted of course.
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#7CakeOfLiesPosted 8/19/2013 7:12:41 AM
More and more Froakievo looks like he's gonna be a Water type Infernape.
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#8PentaoPosted 8/19/2013 7:20:14 AM
HP becomes "red" at 20% or less, after two Hydro Pumps, Chespin still had yellow health, meaning each Hydro Pump did less than 40% and it's closer to something like 3X%.

I feel like the demo was done specifically to create an instance where each "player" is "down to their last Pokemon," and you can see that they purposely choose non-ideal moves to show this. Chespin could have just Wood Hammered Froakie, there was no need to use Wood Hammer on Helioptile, Froakie could have used Bounce on Chespin, etc.

I think a lot of your "facts" will end up being accurate, however I think that there could still be more factors at play, since for a demo, it's not uncommon for things to be staged for display purposes. Some of the damage outputs could have been precalculated if this match was scripted, or purposely set (within reasonable bounds) to ensure a certain outcome.

Of course if the match isn't scripted then all of that goes out the door and all I can really say is that stuff about Hydro Pump doing 3X range % (probably 35%+) damage instead of forty.
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#9lordlugia_rocksPosted 8/19/2013 7:21:48 AM
High special defense is great an all for Fennekin, but defensive fire types blow chunks just like defensive ice type (why GF insists on making slow bulky ice types is beyond me so thank you Froslass for at least having speed)
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#10MeepleLardicle(Topic Creator)Posted 8/19/2013 7:35:22 AM
HP becomes "red" at 20% or less, after two Hydro Pumps, Chespin still had yellow health, meaning each Hydro Pump did less than 40% and it's closer to something like 3X%.


Ok, fair enough. My basic point was that Chespin had clearly less than 1/3rd health left, so Hydro Pump was a clean 3 hit kill, is all.

I feel like the demo was done specifically to create an instance where each "player" is "down to their last Pokemon," and you can see that they purposely choose non-ideal moves to show this. Chespin could have just Wood Hammered Froakie, there was no need to use Wood Hammer on Helioptile, Froakie could have used Bounce on Chespin, etc.


Most definitely; the Solar Beam stunt alone proves that. I still believe the basic lay out of the fight is telling how good/bad Pokemon are at certain stats.


I think a lot of your "facts" will end up being accurate, however I think that there could still be more factors at play, since for a demo, it's not uncommon for things to be staged for display purposes. Some of the damage outputs could have been precalculated if this match was scripted, or purposely set (within reasonable bounds) to ensure a certain outcome.


I put "facts" in quotes because it was lack of a better word, and there were a number of variables; they aren't 100% confirmed, and I figured it'd be a way to get a point across that these are merely based on observational data.

The problem I have with "pre-calculated results" is Critical Hits. If one of those kicks in, it could totally skew the fight.

That said, the 3rd Pokemon in both was clearly way stronger than the first two, to insure that "all 3 were used" scenario. Gogoat and Noivern are final stage Pokemon, thus are going to crush the first 4, which are stage 1 Pokemon, pretty handedly, so hard to say.

But yeah, scripted fight is very plausible.

Of course if the match isn't scripted then all of that goes out the door and all I can really say is that stuff about Hydro Pump doing 3X range % (probably 35%+) damage instead of forty.


Yes, thank you for the clarification again.
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