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Why are some people against having more and more pokemon?

#11kclaujamesPosted 8/19/2013 7:09:03 PM(edited)
JackSolomon posted...
They assume that having more Pokemon means having more BAD Pokemon. They're right, to an extent: The more Pokemon they have, the more likely they are to have a bad design or Pokemon, simple statistics.

Where they make the logic leap off the deep end is where they assume that having some bad ones contaminates the good ones. Now why does that happen? Well, no one likes to think of themselves as a hater. If you genuinely dislike something (meaning, you're not just a troll) you think there's a good reason for you NOT to like it,even if you can't put it into words, there's a definite reason for your hatred.

It's possible that these guys who hate new Pokemon are thinking that with the addition of each bad Pokemon, there's a greater chance people who already hate, dislike, or are at least neutral about Pokemon, will see these bad ones and see that as a reason to stay away from the franchise. So for the good of the entire franchise, only good Pokemon should exist. With the old? You know what you've got. With the new? It's new. It's unknown. It's getting attention, therefore it's polarizing. If a SINGLE bad Pokemon is revealed, it could drive fans away, polarize newcomers, etc.

So they might think that by hating on and trying to discourage new Pokemon, they're helping the franchise. Protecting it.

Or maybe they're just looney. No telling.


I think this is correct on many levels. And I think the tendency for people to protect franchises they like is encouraging. In Gen V I saw exhaustion in the ideas for new Pokemon. The appearance of gimmicky Pokemon is one piece of evidence for exhaustion. When a stage performer cannot conjure up new ideas, he will have no choice but to resort to jokes and gimmicks to keep the audience entertained. If it is executed well then no one will discover his desperation. However, doing this is like walking on thin ice. It takes a LOT of inborn talent and quick wit to make jokes that do not appear superfluous.

This is why every series should be given a rest once in a while. Gen V was a good time for a rest but Gamefreak decided to linger on. Good ideas requires time to form. Setting business aside for a moment, let us remind ourselves that great painters and musicians centuries ago came to fame because of the inspiration behind their work. Their pieces are admired or performed even to this day. And anyone who has created art before will probably realize that inspiration is not something we always have in our possession...

Therefore, people are not actually opposed to the idea of having more Pokemon. They are worried that the likelihood of committing mistakes will increase as the series continues. If you are gambling and you are on a winning-streak, the chance that you will lose on the next game will increase as you play more and more games.
#12TyranidomegaPosted 8/19/2013 7:13:52 PM
afsdfadf posted...
JackSolomon posted...
They assume that having more Pokemon means having more BAD Pokemon. They're right, to an extent: The more Pokemon they have, the more likely they are to have a bad design or Pokemon, simple statistics.

Where they make the logic leap off the deep end is where they assume that having some bad ones contaminates the good ones. Now why does that happen? Well, no one likes to think of themselves as a hater. If you genuinely dislike something (meaning, you're not just a troll) you think there's a good reason for you NOT to like it,even if you can't put it into words, there's a definite reason for your hatred.

It's possible that these guys who hate new Pokemon are thinking that with the addition of each bad Pokemon, there's a greater chance people who already hate, dislike, or are at least neutral about Pokemon, will see these bad ones and see that as a reason to stay away from the franchise. So for the good of the entire franchise, only good Pokemon should exist. With the old? You know what you've got. With the new? It's new. It's unknown. It's getting attention, therefore it's polarizing. If a SINGLE bad Pokemon is revealed, it could drive fans away, polarize newcomers, etc.

So they might think that by hating on and trying to discourage new Pokemon, they're helping the franchise. Protecting it.

Or maybe they're just looney. No telling.


I think this is correct on many levels. And I think the tendency for people to protect franchises they like is encouraging. In Gen V I saw exhaustion in the ideas for new Pokemon. The appearance of gimmicky Pokemon is one piece of evidence for exhaustion. When a stage performer cannot conjure up new ideas, he will have no choice but to resort to jokes and gimmicks to keep the audience entertained. If it is executed well then no one will discover his desperation. However, doing this is like walking on thin ice. It takes a LOT of inborn talent and quick wit to make jokes that do not appear superfluous.

This is why every series should be given a rest once in a while. Gen V was a good time for a rest but Gamefreak decided to linger on. Good ideas requires time to form. Setting business aside for a moment, let us remind ourselves that great painters and musicians centuries ago came to fame because of the inspiration behind their work. Their pieces are admired or performed even to this day. And anyone who has created art before will probably realize that inspiration is not something we always have in our possession...


I personally saw creative ideas in Gen 5. You can't tell me that ideas behind the likes of Volcarona, Hydreigon or Serperior were bad or 'desperate'
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#13AlI_About_The_UPosted 8/19/2013 7:15:02 PM
New things are new and different, and scary.
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#14aznStaRBoYPosted 8/19/2013 7:23:41 PM
1)Power creep
2)Too much filler Pokemon
3)The existing Pokemon already do everything that's supposed to be done

Gen 4 was the peak of the metagame.
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#15PheonixFFire7Posted 8/19/2013 7:46:26 PM
Its just inevitable that the more you have of something, the more watered down it becomes. Its value is lessened when there's so many available.

And its harder to establish any kind of meaningful connection with each individual Pokemon when so many exist. There's so many that demand your attention and memory that you can't help but place less value on each one. You wear yourself thin trying to care about them all. It was easy when there was 151, even 251 wasn't so bad. Once it creeped up to nearly 400, each individual Pokemon became less and less memorable because there were so many to have to keep track of.

This is most apparent with the Legendary Pokemon in particular. There's so many now that the title of "legendary" practically loses all meaning.
#16Nado6Posted 8/19/2013 7:48:16 PM
It's harder to complete the national dex :P
#17ClassyOldHatPosted 8/19/2013 9:44:19 PM
PheonixFFire7 posted...
Its just inevitable that the more you have of something, the more watered down it becomes. Its value is lessened when there's so many available.

And its harder to establish any kind of meaningful connection with each individual Pokemon when so many exist. There's so many that demand your attention and memory that you can't help but place less value on each one. You wear yourself thin trying to care about them all. It was easy when there was 151, even 251 wasn't so bad. Once it creeped up to nearly 400, each individual Pokemon became less and less memorable because there were so many to have to keep track of.

This is most apparent with the Legendary Pokemon in particular. There's so many now that the title of "legendary" practically loses all meaning.


This is a big reason for me, as well as:

1. Game Freak having a harder time keeping things balanced (including power creep). I, personally, would be a lot more happy to see a game that makes a better attempt to balance existing pokemon than another 100 new Pokemon, all in the extremes of being borderline Uber or stuff that is never used in Never Used, which only helps make existing Pokemon worth even less.

2. "Limited space to put all the Pokemon." This was one of the excuses for generation 3 being impossible to complete without seven games across two consoles. Generation 4 showed that all pokemon could be included more reasonably, if you're clever, but then gen 5 came along and decided to stuff everything in the unusable dreamworld/Dream Radar. This holds especially true when you have "regional dexs" as this means all Pokemon not included in said regional dex will have to be shoved into the tiny handful of postgame areas, assuming they are lucky enough to be available in-game at all.
#18waterpkmaster06Posted 8/19/2013 9:57:11 PM
aznStaRBoY posted...
Gen 4 was the peak of the metagame.


Lies
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#19fahademonPosted 8/19/2013 10:34:41 PM
waterpkmaster06 posted...
aznStaRBoY posted...
Gen 4 was the peak of the metagame.


Lies


Truth.Gen5s power creep was bad.Gen4 had better wifi too so battling was fun.And charizard was better before Volcarona came.It was fun.It wasnt as complicated as it is now without DW.

*cries*
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#20bd43Posted 8/19/2013 10:40:54 PM
I will say, if they make another bitterfly, they really ought to make it stand out.

But for the most part, Gen 5 got to play a different role than past gens in terms of design. You can always do better, but it could have easily been worse.
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