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"More than 1500 Cheaters took Part in the 2013 Global Showdown"

#141kaiser ryuPosted 8/21/2013 1:20:09 PM
gans626 posted...
I've just got one question since this topic is still raging on.

Do people still actually play Pokemon? Or do they just hack their teams as fast as they can?


They collect the 50 or so actual new Pokemon from the current new game then transfer all the Pokemon they've collected for the last decade. And then hack to win.
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#142kingjam1Posted 8/21/2013 1:20:22 PM
gans626 posted...
I've just got one question since this topic is still raging on.

Do people still actually play Pokemon? Or do they just hack their teams as fast as they can?


They probably actually play Pokemon battles instead of praying that the RNG goddess loves them.
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#143feeltheninjutsuPosted 8/21/2013 1:21:33 PM
kaiser ryu posted...
feeltheninjitsu posted...
kaiser ryu posted...
feeltheninjitsu posted...

The metaphor is fine. You shouldn't be comparing athletes' strength to a Pokemon's strength. The person that is winning or losing the match is the ACTUAL PERSON BATTLING. The metaphorical athlete is YOU. Not the Pokemon. The athlete wins because of his strengh/speed etc., which he increases by practicing. You win Pokemon battles by getting better at predicting opponents and knowing what to do in the right moments. You get better at this by practicing. The Pokemon are just the tools. They are the golf clubs, basketballs, ect. that *YOU* use to compete. It doesn't matter that IVs are supposed to be "genetic differences." That is irrelevant to whether something is fair or not gameplay wise. If steroids could make you predict the opponent's moves, then yes, steroids would be a good comparison. Pokemon are the tools. They are not the "muscles" you dope to increase. The muscle you use is your brain. Not the Pokemon.


You are the race horse's breeder, manager, and rider. Not the horse. You are juicing the horse when you alter it's IVs, not yourself. The IVs belong to PIKACHU!


Because juicing changes its genetic code, right? If horses were born with a random number that determined its max speed, then maybe this would be a decent comparison. Even then it wouldn't, because, the horse is the one competing, the thing that actually wins or loses, the thing that people bet on. In Pokemon it is the actual person who wins or loses, as you have full control over what your Pokemon do. The only thing that would give an unrealistic advantage is if you doped your brain power.


Now, are you reading? I already said it bypassed what nature gave you to make you individual. The next closest thing is genetic engineering and it's not there yet. Also, the jockey does a LOT of work. Horses don't run faster solo. They need to be pushed.

If you really insist on pushing your analogy down my throat (you responded to me, these aren't your terms to make) then golf is still a terrible comparison. You're making it as though you, the Pokemon game player are comparable to a physically fit athlete manipulating a ball through a given space with a combination of tools, athleticism and a moderate understanding of physics.

If there were no other sports close to Pokemon this would be fine but we already have precedent for actual RNG based games outside of Pokemon. Pokemon as designed is an RNG based game with some factors allowed to be manipulated by the player moreso than others. You wanting to bypass the game's rules is tantamount to a poker player carrying a loaded deck to level the playing field.


The only comparison I made to an athlete is the fact that you, not the Pokemon, are the one who wins or loses. Having Pokemon on equal footing is like having equal equipment. Saying a person using steroids is like maxing IVs makes no sense, because Pokemon are just the tools. Carrying a loaded deck is nothing like maxing IVs. Loading a deck is attempting to give yourself an advantage over others. Maxing IVs is the competitive standard. You do it to make your Pokemon *equal* to others'. If you want to step away from athletes and steroids, then how about chess instead of poker. What if the pieces you got were affected by the RNG? Maxing IVs levels the playing ground. Essentially everyone in any tournament edits their Pokemon. It keeps the game fair.
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#144PentaoPosted 8/21/2013 1:25:12 PM
gans626 posted...
I've just got one question since this topic is still raging on.

Do people still actually play Pokemon? Or do they just hack their teams as fast as they can?


I do yeah. Even though I've generated teams, I still enjoy many in game elements and some of the amusing localization. I play through the story and all, and even though it's not some grandiose masterpiece ever, I get my enjoyment from it. I hit the battle subway or whatever thing the game has at times to do achievements, and I still catch wild Pokemon despite being able to just generate them.

Sometimes I modify those wild Pokemon's IVs then train them as normal, but yes I still do play a lot of the actual game.

And at other times instead of battling through wi-fi I use simulators, though I prefer the wifi experience better, since I actually do like Pokemon's graphics and sounds.

I like features like the Join Avenue and GTS. The Magnemite Link was a fun and amusing project that the community put together.

I've played through the Pokemon World Tournament several times to hear the old champion and gym themes while collecting BP and just for general nostalgia factor.

I played through much of Pokestar Studios as well. That's me, can't answer for others though.
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#145paralyzed21Posted 8/21/2013 1:25:50 PM
pathetic
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#146InhaledCornPosted 8/21/2013 1:27:07 PM
gans626 posted...
I've just got one question since this topic is still raging on.

Do people still actually play Pokemon? Or do they just hack their teams as fast as they can?


Yes, I played the single player story. I wouldn't have thought N was a wonderful character and happy to see him again when he returned in B/W2 if I hadn't.

And, to all of those people who think the game is cheat-free, the Elite 4 have perfectly EV trained Pokemon and likely also have perfect IV Pokemon as well. Yes, you can level grind and use type matchups to your advantage, but the computer loves to stack the odds against you.

In competitive matches where levels are pre-set, you can't level grind to overcome your inferior stats or training.
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#147kingjam1Posted 8/21/2013 1:30:59 PM
InhaledCorn posted...
gans626 posted...
I've just got one question since this topic is still raging on.

Do people still actually play Pokemon? Or do they just hack their teams as fast as they can?


Yes, I played the single player story. I wouldn't have thought N was a wonderful character and happy to see him again when he returned in B/W2 if I hadn't.

And, to all of those people who think the game is cheat-free, the Elite 4 have perfectly EV trained Pokemon and likely also have perfect IV Pokemon as well. Yes, you can level grind and use type matchups to your advantage, but the computer loves to stack the odds against you.

In competitive matches where levels are pre-set, you can't level grind to overcome your inferior stats or training.


I'm pretty sure in game Pokemon outside of battle facilities don't have EVs. You are right about perfect IVs though.
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#148kaiser ryuPosted 8/21/2013 1:37:17 PM
feeltheninjitsu posted...
The only comparison I made to an athlete is the fact that you, not the Pokemon, are the one who wins or loses. Having Pokemon on equal footing is like having equal equipment. Saying a person using steroids is like maxing IVs makes no sense, because Pokemon are just the tools. Carrying a loaded deck is nothing like maxing IVs. Loading a deck is attempting to give yourself an advantage over others. Maxing IVs is the competitive standard. You do it to make your Pokemon *equal* to others'. If you want to step away from athletes and steroids, then how about chess instead of poker. What if the pieces you got were affected by the RNG? Maxing IVs levels the playing ground. Essentially everyone in any tournament edits their Pokemon. It keeps the game fair.


There you go again using an incompatible game as comparison. Pokemon is designed to have random elements. The competitive scene, hacking and all, is endemic of a people wanting to bend the game to match their ideal. The steroid analogy is focusing on this. The whole thing is boosting WHATEVER ELEMENT so that you have no handicap compared to others. This scenario only exists because of the initial ignoring of rules. Everyone is taking steroids.

You insist upon making an analogy that relies on the initial action the competitive player base takes of changing Pokemon's rules how they see fit as de facto and then justifying it by doing the same alteration to sports not even designed to be based on RNG. I can't begin to understand how you can't see how flawed this is. Poker was made to be RNG based, Chess was not. Pokemon was made to be RNG based. Golf was not. It doesn't matter if you're stacking your deck, juicing your horse, bending the rules, removing the brakes from an opponent's car. It's all cheating. Competitive Pokemon apparently has a somewhat unique distinction of being a game with a player base that feels cheating is okay because they all agreed it was so.
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The Tales of series needs more love in America.
Won't change sig until Namco gets wise. Started: 9/8/06
#149gans626Posted 8/21/2013 1:37:19 PM
Here's a moral question to everyone trying to justify hacking "just because everyone else is doing it."

100 people break into a car dealership and steals a car. The police catches only 50 of the thieves. Does that make it morally ok for the other 50 who didn't get caught cause they were better than the others?
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#150kingjam1Posted 8/21/2013 1:39:51 PM
gans626 posted...
Here's a moral question to everyone trying to justify hacking "just because everyone else is doing it."

100 people break into a car dealership and steals a car. The police catches only 50 of the thieves. Does that make it morally ok for the other 50 who didn't get caught cause they were better than the others?


Comparing stealing to getting stronger Pokemon in a children's video game.
Is it moral to breed tons of animals, ignoring the ones that aren't perfect until you get a perfect one?
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