This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

If People Would Stop "Manipulating" Pokemon to Get Perfect EVs/IVs...

#21ynniPosted 8/31/2013 1:17:10 PM
Rather than ditch the IV system completely, how about making it so any particular Pokemon can only have a maximum number of IVs, similar to have EVs are done. It would mean that you can't have a perfect 31 IVs for each stat.

Put simply, make it impossible to legally have perfect IVs and the playing field may end up becoming more level.
---
*Insert witty line*
#22beebarbPosted 8/31/2013 1:25:37 PM
Kapuxa posted...
If there was no rng or hacking, IVs would become another reason why a player is good, rather than a thing that's cheated all the time.


Your sentence may be a little confusing to some. Particularly when you mention RNG. If there was no RNG, there would be nothing seemingly random in the game, making it completely scripted and uninteresting.

I think you meant to say "If there was no RNG abuse...". Though, RNG abuse is acceptable as it's working within the limits of the game, and uses the game itself in order to be done.

Hacking is just wrong no matter which way you look at it. They're bypassing the game entirely to get what they want.
---
I gave up and did the 3DS transfer anyway...
3DS XL FC: 2492-4470-1418 / White 2 FC: 0047-4149-5185 / White FC: 0348-0626-6780
#23KeeperOfShadowsPosted 8/31/2013 1:25:59 PM
ynni posted...
Rather than ditch the IV system completely, how about making it so any particular Pokemon can only have a maximum number of IVs, similar to have EVs are done. It would mean that you can't have a perfect 31 IVs for each stat.

Put simply, make it impossible to legally have perfect IVs and the playing field may end up becoming more level.


How so? If a pokemon can only have, say, 25 IVs in Atk, wouldn't people just always give it 25 IVs in Atk?
---
A voice of reason, in a chaotic realm.
"Are you angry? Do you hate me?"
#24Sloth9230Posted 8/31/2013 1:29:21 PM
ynni posted...
Rather than ditch the IV system completely, how about making it so any particular Pokemon can only have a maximum number of IVs, similar to have EVs are done. It would mean that you can't have a perfect 31 IVs for each stat.

Put simply, make it impossible to legally have perfect IVs and the playing field may end up becoming more level.


So... 0 Sp.Atk for physical mons and 0 Atk for speical mons...
#25ClassyOldHatPosted 8/31/2013 1:31:08 PM
Kapuxa posted...
If there was no rng or hacking, IVs would become another reason why a player is good, rather than a thing that's cheated all the time.

Balance the game? I really believe it would. But one thing's certain, it would show who are the really good players, cause whether we like it or not, IVs are there, and if they werent cheated they would be a crucial component of every battle.


I'd agree with the idea that IVs would be a reason why a player is good... If I could see a meaningful player-controlled element to IVs.

The Power Items effects are negligible even for those who are "settling" for high twenties, because three IVs get passed from a parent whether you use it or not, the item just specifies which IV one parent is guaranteed to pass. And before we forget, these parents with max IVs to be passed, as with legends or Dream World males, must first be acquired without any methods involving player input.

How can you say that IVs prove who's the better player when two players can literally use the same parents, walk the exact same number of steps, same power item, etc. and still get into situations where one player's stats are vastly higher than the other? Is there some "legit" IV manipulation mechanic (I.E., like the power items, but with a meaningful effect), that you have found but Bulbapedia, Serebii, and Smogon have missed? I'm genuinely curious as to your explanation.
#26KapuxaPosted 8/31/2013 4:22:51 PM(edited)
ClassyOldHat posted...
Kapuxa posted...
If there was no rng or hacking, IVs would become another reason why a player is good, rather than a thing that's cheated all the time.

Balance the game? I really believe it would. But one thing's certain, it would show who are the really good players, cause whether we like it or not, IVs are there, and if they werent cheated they would be a crucial component of every battle.


I'd agree with the idea that IVs would be a reason why a player is good... If I could see a meaningful player-controlled element to IVs.

The Power Items effects are negligible even for those who are "settling" for high twenties, because three IVs get passed from a parent whether you use it or not, the item just specifies which IV one parent is guaranteed to pass. And before we forget, these parents with max IVs to be passed, as with legends or Dream World males, must first be acquired without any methods involving player input.

How can you say that IVs prove who's the better player when two players can literally use the same parents, walk the exact same number of steps, same power item, etc. and still get into situations where one player's stats are vastly higher than the other? Is there some "legit" IV manipulation mechanic (I.E., like the power items, but with a meaningful effect), that you have found but Bulbapedia, Serebii, and Smogon have missed? I'm genuinely curious as to your explanation.


Of course there's not another manipulation mechanic. We use what we get. Thing is, imagine a case with two players, one hacks, the other does not. The hacker puts the pokemon to max in a second, while the other soft resets or breeds or whatever mechanic they choose or have to use until they get that perfect pokemon they want. If no one hacked, the player with more patience would get the better pokemon, not stopping until he got the IVs he wanted, making him the better player when it comes to IVs. As there is someone who can be a better battler, there's someone who's a better IV getter (independant of the means to it), its not that hard to understand. Naturally, If there were no hacks, the people who have more patience to get the better IVs, if also good at battling, would do better than other with lower IVs also good at battling.

As for the "Rng manipulation" mentioned, the topic itself shows were discussing the manipulation part, seemed pretty clear to me, guess not to everyone.

And to be clear, I dont rng >ABUSE< or hack, but I dont "hate" on the people who do, it's their game, they choose how to play it, could not care less.Thing is, it's usually hackers and rng >MANIPULATORS< that create topics defending this, showing that they feel guilty themselfs for doing it. A player who plays clean will always be a better player than a "shortcut" player in my opinion.
#27ClassyOldHatPosted 8/31/2013 5:03:44 PM
Kapuxa posted...
If no one hacked, the player with more patience would get the better pokemon, not stopping until he got the IVs he wanted, making him the better player when it comes to IVs. As there is someone who can be a better battler, there's someone who's a better IV getter (independant of the means to it), its not that hard to understand. Naturally, If there were no hacks, the people who have more patience to get the better IVs, if also good at battling, would do better than other with lower IVs also good at battling.


True, patience is a virtue, and all that. But, at the same time, you seem to treat it like an inevitability that if given enough time, any player would eventually get what they wanted.

True, in some cases, simply having a large enough sample would guarantee a victory; for example, if money was no object and you could buy every single lottery ticket in the country, you would win, because lotteries always have to print at least one winning ticket. With Pokemon's system, however, the game's RNG has no obligation to produce the desired IV set; if you got particularly unlucky, you could play the game nonstop from the time you got it to the time you died, and never receive a Pokemon with an IV higher than five in any stat. Granted, that is an extreme, unlikely example, but it is possible, nontheless.

Second, sometimes external forces mean that players equal in every other respect will be put at an unfair disadvantage by IVs. For example, if two players of approximately equal skill and patience both buy the game on day one, and both read at the same time that Nintendo will be having an official tournament one month from release. Both players make it through the single player at the same pace, and both start their breeding/training regimes at the same time, for the same amount of time every day. Both of them have the patience of a saint, and would wait a year for the tournament if they could to get good IVs. But, one gets lucky, and has a team of perfect IVs in less than a week. The other is breeding/catching/soft resetting legends for the whole month, and by the time the tournament rolled around, he got 6-0'ed on what should have been a close match with the lucky one, because his HP and Defense IVs were so low that his foe could do 40% more damage to him than he could do to them.

And so the unlucky guy loses through no fault of his own. Even if he had more patience than the lucky guy, and would have been willing to wait five years, he would still lose this tournament, despite his higher patience making him "the better player," because Nintendo and the patient guy's competition don't have the time to wait for him to finally get lucky.