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Pokemon games shouldn't have starter Pokemon

#11Alexoneill77777Posted 9/6/2013 8:35:11 AM
maslada posted...
Alexoneill77777 posted...
maslada posted...
Or rather not with the formula they have now. This game is going to be unique in that the game doesn't give you a single one of a kind Pokémon, not 2, but 3. In a game about catching and raising your own Pokémon you are outright going to be given 3 one of a kind (in game anyway) Pokémon that are better than 80% of the Pokémon available to catch during the story. I predict half of all cartridges first beating of the E4 will be with a team consisting of Blaziken, Venusaur and whatever Froakie eventually evolves into. So much for crafting your own team.

Sure you don't have to use them, but you're asking a lot of people to not use the best available to them. It's like the preorder bonus armour and weapons that came with dragon age origins which was better than the stuff you got in game till fairly late. It utterly ruined any sense of progression yet nearly everyone used it acknowledging that. Or its like driving around in saints row 4, sure you could limit yourself to driving, but you'd be an idiot. Better just to play saints row 3 if you want driving, because the game limits you and it becomes a decent option.

But this is ultimately what starter Pokémon have always done. When you were kids playing against your friends with red/blue your friends team was utterly unpredictable, with one exception. You knew you'd see either a Venusaur, Charizard or Blastoise. Everything else was an eagerly awaited surprise.

Not to mention it makes no sense in the Pokémon world, hardly anyone gets these starter Pokémon it seems. You running around with one of these ultra rare starters makes you the guy with the Ł200 tennis racket, the guy whose parents bought him a mercedes, an advantage. Now I'm a capitalist, I don't mind these things but wouldn't it be more of an adventure, more of a story if on your 10th birthday your Dad comes home drunk and gives you a crappy Rattata he just caught for your birthday, beats you up, and kicks you out of the house and tells you to use it to make your own way in the world?

Starter Pokémon should be just that, a Pokémon you use till you get something better. Yellow did this with Pikachu, how many of used him till the end? Limits make a game better.


The starters are not good compared to most of the pokemon you can catch. The only exception are the rodants and bug pokemon. Most of the starters are in NU or RU lol


Competitively yes, most starters suck. But not in game and certainly not often compared to Pokémon of the same type that you can catch in game for the most part. Pokémon like Staraptor, Darmanitan and Drilbur are the exception, not the rule.



Your have missed like all of them. In BW2-
Azumarill, magnetron, Conkeldur, eevee and all the evolutions, Lucario, Axew, Magmortar, Electrivire, Arcanine......
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#12SR71haloPosted 9/6/2013 8:42:13 AM
Yellow did this with Pikachu, how many of used him till the end?

*raises hand*
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#13maslada(Topic Creator)Posted 9/6/2013 9:01:36 AM
Alexoneill77777 posted...
maslada posted...
Alexoneill77777 posted...
maslada posted...
Or rather not with the formula they have now. This game is going to be unique in that the game doesn't give you a single one of a kind Pokémon, not 2, but 3. In a game about catching and raising your own Pokémon you are outright going to be given 3 one of a kind (in game anyway) Pokémon that are better than 80% of the Pokémon available to catch during the story. I predict half of all cartridges first beating of the E4 will be with a team consisting of Blaziken, Venusaur and whatever Froakie eventually evolves into. So much for crafting your own team.

Sure you don't have to use them, but you're asking a lot of people to not use the best available to them. It's like the preorder bonus armour and weapons that came with dragon age origins which was better than the stuff you got in game till fairly late. It utterly ruined any sense of progression yet nearly everyone used it acknowledging that. Or its like driving around in saints row 4, sure you could limit yourself to driving, but you'd be an idiot. Better just to play saints row 3 if you want driving, because the game limits you and it becomes a decent option.

But this is ultimately what starter Pokémon have always done. When you were kids playing against your friends with red/blue your friends team was utterly unpredictable, with one exception. You knew you'd see either a Venusaur, Charizard or Blastoise. Everything else was an eagerly awaited surprise.

Not to mention it makes no sense in the Pokémon world, hardly anyone gets these starter Pokémon it seems. You running around with one of these ultra rare starters makes you the guy with the Ł200 tennis racket, the guy whose parents bought him a mercedes, an advantage. Now I'm a capitalist, I don't mind these things but wouldn't it be more of an adventure, more of a story if on your 10th birthday your Dad comes home drunk and gives you a crappy Rattata he just caught for your birthday, beats you up, and kicks you out of the house and tells you to use it to make your own way in the world?

Starter Pokémon should be just that, a Pokémon you use till you get something better. Yellow did this with Pikachu, how many of used him till the end? Limits make a game better.


The starters are not good compared to most of the pokemon you can catch. The only exception are the rodants and bug pokemon. Most of the starters are in NU or RU lol


Competitively yes, most starters suck. But not in game and certainly not often compared to Pokémon of the same type that you can catch in game for the most part. Pokémon like Staraptor, Darmanitan and Drilbur are the exception, not the rule.



Your have missed like all of them. In BW2-
Azumarill, magnetron, Conkeldur, eevee and all the evolutions, Lucario, Axew, Magmortar, Electrivire, Arcanine......


Azumaril is definitely not better than Samurott, maybe competively but not in game. Magmortar isn't better than Emboar in game and Arcanine is arguably not as good in game thanks to a shallow movepool. None of the Eevees are better in game thanks to shallow movepools too with perhaps the exception of Espeon thanks to its massive sp. attack.

Magnezone is one of the exceptions. I said the starters are better than most Pokemon you can catch during the course of the game, not all of them and some of the ones they are outclassed by come so late in the game you wouldn't be able to use them without grinding.
#14YourLuckPosted 9/6/2013 9:32:47 AM
maslada posted...
Or rather not with the formula they have now. This game is going to be unique in that the game doesn't give you a single one of a kind Pokémon, not 2, but 3. In a game about catching and raising your own Pokémon you are outright going to be given 3 one of a kind (in game anyway) Pokémon that are better than 80% of the Pokémon available to catch during the story. I predict half of all cartridges first beating of the E4 will be with a team consisting of Blaziken, Venusaur and whatever Froakie eventually evolves into. So much for crafting your own team.

Sure you don't have to use them, but you're asking a lot of people to not use the best available to them. It's like the preorder bonus armour and weapons that came with dragon age origins which was better than the stuff you got in game till fairly late. It utterly ruined any sense of progression yet nearly everyone used it acknowledging that. Or its like driving around in saints row 4, sure you could limit yourself to driving, but you'd be an idiot. Better just to play saints row 3 if you want driving, because the game limits you and it becomes a decent option.

But this is ultimately what starter Pokémon have always done. When you were kids playing against your friends with red/blue your friends team was utterly unpredictable, with one exception. You knew you'd see either a Venusaur, Charizard or Blastoise. Everything else was an eagerly awaited surprise.

Not to mention it makes no sense in the Pokémon world, hardly anyone gets these starter Pokémon it seems. You running around with one of these ultra rare starters makes you the guy with the Ł200 tennis racket, the guy whose parents bought him a mercedes, an advantage. Now I'm a capitalist, I don't mind these things but wouldn't it be more of an adventure, more of a story if on your 10th birthday your Dad comes home drunk and gives you a crappy Rattata he just caught for your birthday, beats you up, and kicks you out of the house and tells you to use it to make your own way in the world?

Starter Pokémon should be just that, a Pokémon you use till you get something better. Yellow did this with Pikachu, how many of used him till the end? Limits make a game better.


Is this topic for new pokemon gamers, people who got gen vi after v, or us old hands who started from before iv?

New gamers won't care and they won't think about the starter, because they're just the same as any other pokemon. Same goes with ones that start with gen v, but they have a bit more experience with pokemon. It's a tradition for the people who started pre-gen iv.

Since we don't know how other trainers get their pokemon, your point is kind of moot. The starters are just a game play mechanic, and it's best not to think too hard about it, and rationalize it with the pokemon world.
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#15Alexoneill77777Posted 9/6/2013 9:57:56 AM
Azumarill is much better because of its huge power and all you need is waterfall, emboar is so slow compared to arcanine, all of the eeves are better than the starters. And what about the others I mentioned? You seem to be making stuff up. Just because they are available early on dosnt make them better. And the others I didn't even mention.
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#16maslada(Topic Creator)Posted 9/6/2013 10:41:33 AM
Alexoneill77777 posted...
Azumarill is much better because of its huge power and all you need is waterfall, emboar is so slow compared to arcanine, all of the eeves are better than the starters. And what about the others I mentioned? You seem to be making stuff up. Just because they are available early on dosnt make them better. And the others I didn't even mention.


How early they are available is very relevant. I don't like to grind, I never beat on wild Pokémon or repeatable trainers so it does matter how early a Pokémon is available. If I have to put in an hour extra to get a Pokémon up to standard over a slightly worse one then I'll take the slightly worse one, its only an in game team. The sooner I finish the game the sooner I can work on constructing a team to beat other players. Azumarill has only average defenses to make up for its awful speed, Samurott has good defense, reasonable offence, swords dance, megamiss and has a good enough sp. atk to make use of ice beam.

Arcanines extra speed means nothing when his coverage is so bad. A single Flame charge will also make Emboar faster than everything you're likely to face in game. You are vastly overestimating the worth of the eevees in game. Vaporeon may be a staple of OU but wish is an egg move. Offensively it has surf and ice beam, poor speed and though its sp.atk is good it has no way to raise it. Most definitely a downgrade for in game purposes from Samurott.

Flareon has even more move problems than Arcanine. Jolteon has nothing special outside of electric attacks. Umbreon as a defensive Pokémon has the problem of taking a long time to kill stuff. Theoretically Ferrothorn can beat a whole heap of things in game but no one uses him in game because it's too much of a pain. The grass one has the problem of being a grass type. The Ice one is bad. Espeon is pretty good, but better than the average starter for in game purposes? Not so sure.
#17dominatinggamerPosted 9/7/2013 11:51:59 AM
maslada posted...
Now I'm a capitalist, I don't mind these things but wouldn't it be more of an adventure, more of a story if on your 10th birthday your Dad comes home drunk and gives you a crappy Rattata he just caught for your birthday, beats you up, and kicks you out of the house and tells you to use it to make your own way in the world?


Thank you for the clarification on being a capitalist.

And LOL at dad coming home to give you a Rattata! I actually did like Raticate in the original games so I'd be down for that!

I think it would be cool if they did just randomly give you one of the 600+ pokemon as your starter. It's like your first car, you take what you can get. You didn't want that weedle? Oh thats too bad, go catch some different pokemon then.
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#18sonOFestarkPosted 9/7/2013 12:00:23 PM
SR71halo posted...
Yellow did this with Pikachu, how many of used him till the end?

*raises hand*


*raises hand also*

The first time I played Yellow, I reached the Elite 4 with a level 100 Butterfree, 60 something Pikachu, 50 something Dewgong, untrained Articuno and Zapdos, and a Primeape I caught on the way.
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#19Sloth9230Posted 9/7/2013 12:12:14 PM
Ampharos, Lucario, Arcanine, Conkeldur, Liligante, Whimsicot, Heracross, Scrafty, Krookodile, Damatarian, Flygon, Zoroark, Haxorus, Eeeletcross, Buffoulant, Mienshao, Weavile, Metagross, Druddigon and Hydreigon.

All available before the elite 4 in B2/W2, all better than the starters. While the starters have higher BSTs than most of these guys, their stats are far too balanced and not particularly good at anything.

The only Starter that isn't completely outclassed is Sammurott, and that's because Golduck and Flatzel are about the same.
#20Sloth9230Posted 9/7/2013 12:20:53 PM
maslada posted...

Arcanines extra speed means nothing when his coverage is so bad.


It's coverage is exactly the same as Ebmoars , if not better, so I don't see your point. Oh fine, it doesn't get Close combat til you can breed, but crunch, flamethrower, extreme speed, and bulldoze/dragon pulse/ Wild charge are more than enough for the E4.