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An old puzzle from last year: Beat this Charizard with a Venusaur

#1MrFingers07Posted 9/19/2013 12:04:26 PM
Here's a Pokemon puzzle that I shamelessly stole. Your opponent has the following Charizard:


Charizard @ Focus Sash
Solar Power
252 Att / 162 SpAtt / 96 Spe (+Spe/-SpDef)

-Fire Blast
-Fly
-Flare Blitz
-Sleep Talk



Your objective is to beat this Charizard with a Venusaur. Your Venusaur set has to beat this Charizard 100% of the time, without any guessing games. For this match, make the following assumptions:

* Charizard and Venusaur switch in at the same time and are both at full health.
* Neither player can switch their Pokemon out.
* Charizard never misses.
* No moves (either Venusaur's or Charizard's) will crit, but any other random occurrences (eg. secondary move effects, Venusuar's moves missing) may transpire.

Note that this Charizard outspeeds 252 Speed Timid Venusaur. As for Charizard's offenses, here are some calculations:

162SpAtk Solar Power Charizard (Neutral) Fire Blast vs 4HP/0SpDef Venusaur (Neutral): 105% - 125% (320 - 380 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

162SpAtk Solar Power Charizard (Neutral) Fire Blast vs 252HP/252SpDef Venusaur (+SpDef): 64% - 75% (234 - 276 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

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252Atk Solar Power Charizard (Neutral) Flare Blitz vs 4HP/0Def Venusaur (Neutral): 113% - 133% (342 - 404 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

252Atk Solar Power Charizard (Neutral) Flare Blitz vs 252HP/252Def Venusaur (+Def): 64% - 77% (236 - 282 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

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252Atk Solar Power Charizard (Neutral) Fly vs 4HP/0Def Venusaur (Neutral): 84% - 100% (254 - 302 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

252Atk Solar Power Charizard (Neutral) Fly vs 252HP/252Def Venusaur (+Def): 49% - 58% (180 - 212 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 24% chance to 2HKO.



Your Venusaur set doesn't need to be practical (as the one I have in mind certainly isn't); it just needs to beat this one specific Charizard.

Any ideas?
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:D Brawlin' Mains: R.O.B., Lucario, Pikachu, Wolf
#2SorceressTharjaPosted 9/19/2013 12:10:14 PM
Venusaur @ Lum Berry
Chlorophyll
252 HP / 252 Speed / 4 SpD
-Hidden Power Rock
-Protect
-Substitute
-Leech Seed

Scenario:
Chlorophyll allows it to move first.
Round one: Hidden Power Rock (OHKO - knocks to sash).
Charizard uses Fire Blast or Flare Blitz. Either will not OHKO. If he gets the burn, then lum berry heals. Solar Power faints Charizard.
#3SorceressTharjaPosted 9/19/2013 12:10:57 PM
SorceressTharja posted...
Venusaur @ Lum Berry
Chlorophyll
252 HP / 252 Speed / 4 SpD
-Hidden Power Rock
-Protect
-Substitute
-Leech Seed

Scenario:
Chlorophyll allows it to move first.
Round one: Hidden Power Rock (OHKO - knocks to sash).
Charizard uses Fire Blast or Flare Blitz. Either will not OHKO. If he gets the burn, then lum berry heals. Solar Power faints Charizard.

Alternatively, protect round one will break 'Zard's sash, then HP Rock for a perfect victory.
#4Tygore001Posted 9/19/2013 12:12:44 PM
SorceressTharja posted...
Venusaur @ Lum Berry
Chlorophyll
252 HP / 252 Speed / 4 SpD
-Hidden Power Rock
-Protect
-Substitute
-Leech Seed

Scenario:
Chlorophyll allows it to move first.
Round one: Hidden Power Rock (OHKO - knocks to sash).
Charizard uses Fire Blast or Flare Blitz. Either will not OHKO. If he gets the burn, then lum berry heals. Solar Power faints Charizard.


Except Venusaur would need Sunny Day, unless I missed the part of the first post where it said Sun was already up.
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Pokemon White 2 FC: 3010 5906 4214
3DS FC: 4511-0471-8035
#5BelligeroPosted 9/19/2013 12:13:09 PM
SorceressTharja posted...
Venusaur @ Lum Berry
Chlorophyll
252 HP / 252 Speed / 4 SpD
-Hidden Power Rock
-Protect
-Substitute
-Leech Seed

Scenario:
Chlorophyll allows it to move first.
Round one: Hidden Power Rock (OHKO - knocks to sash).
Charizard uses Fire Blast or Flare Blitz. Either will not OHKO. If he gets the burn, then lum berry heals. Solar Power faints Charizard.


Close, but no dice.

You are assuming Sun is already up, which TC did not specify.
#617MasterPosted 9/19/2013 12:14:18 PM
Wait, are we assuming Sunshine as well? Not sure if that should be assumed because of Solar Power, but it wasn't mentioned in the assumptions list.
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http://www.youtube.com/user/17Master
#7Tygore001Posted 9/19/2013 12:24:24 PM(edited)
Let me try one.
Chlorophyll, Occa Berry, Protect, Sunny Day, HP Rock. First turn, set up Sun. Since you're slower you survive a Fire hit thanks to Occa. If Zard used Fly, Protect. Otherwise, win with HP Rock (use HP Rock on turn 3 to win otherwise).

EDIT: Oh right, EVs. Bah. Um, I don't think you need any to outspeed w/Chlorophyll, right? So, 252 HP, 252 SpA, 4 Spe (just for kicks). I'll let someone who can be bothered to do the math tell me what happens.
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Pokemon White 2 FC: 3010 5906 4214
3DS FC: 4511-0471-8035
#8BornInLondonPosted 9/19/2013 12:21:41 PM
Venusaur w/Rock Gem
Modest
252HP/128Def/128SDef
Sunny Day
Hidden Power Rock
Protect

1st turn: Use Sunny day (If Charizard uses Fire Blast/Flare Blitz, it won't KO). Charizard's Solar Power causes it to lose health.
2nd turn: Use HP Rock (+ Rock Gem's 50% power boost)
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3DS FC: 0275-7091-7992
#9SorceressTharjaPosted 9/19/2013 12:27:06 PM
Okay. I fixed my answer:
Venusaur @ Lum Berry
Chlorophyll
252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpA
Calm Nature
-Hidden Power Rock
-Protect
-Substitute
-Sunny Day

Round 1:
Charizard attacks Venusaur. Fire Blast: 81.31 - 96.15% | Flare Blitz: 71.42 - 84.61% | Fly: 56.59 - 67.58% Venusaur survives. If burned, Venusaur is healed by lum berry, which Occa and Sash do not survive. Venusaur uses Sunny Day. Charizard is hurt by solar power, breaking the sash. Venusaur now outspeeds and OHKOs with HP Rock.
#1017MasterPosted 9/19/2013 12:35:40 PM
BornInLondon posted...
Venusaur w/Rock Gem
Modest
252HP/128Def/128SDef
Sunny Day
Hidden Power Rock
Protect

1st turn: Use Sunny day (If Charizard uses Fire Blast/Flare Blitz, it won't KO). Charizard's Solar Power causes it to lose health.
2nd turn: Use HP Rock (+ Rock Gem's 50% power boost)


I was thinking something on those lines. The problem is, Fire Blast can hit Venu for over 90% HP, THEN inflict a burn. If we take a Lum Berry instead, we can shake the burn off, then outspeed and counter with Hidden Power Rock, which at a minimum should hit for 87.5, enough to take down Charizard thanks to Solar Power.
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