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Reminder: the only people who want IVs to remain are ignorant.

#201The Eternal EvilPosted 9/27/2013 3:12:55 AM
Because improvements have never been made in games to fan suggestions/complaints. I'll give you a hint that assertation is 100% false.
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One Trainer to rule them all, One Trainer to find them,
One Trainer to catch them all and in the Pokeball bind them. Legend of Legacy.
#202Kagayaku08Posted 9/27/2013 4:35:39 AM
Mewtwo_soul posted...


Except if you want to complete the game 100% you do have to do the mundane grinding to the max. (At least on the specified classes that everyone runs) [especially with set equipment.]


no you don't. This is simply exaggerated. All you really need are levels and decent enough equips which is something people will try and work to get in the first place.

But that's the point. We shouldn't have to overcome, but the problem remains a few IVs in a few select stats can break a Pokemon.

so you shouldn't be challenged? (not that i'm saying that IVs make things challenging, it's just for intance)

stats themselves break a pokemon. Some pokemon will never be able to compete with another as higher stats gurantees better performance. Since most will go for perfected IVs, the effect is just the same as no IVs. In other words, IVs aren't the problem here.



stats alone can break a pokemon. IVs only increases that gap. However, when pokemon have the same base stats, IVs does absolutely nothing to change that.

I'm not even meaning a Chimchar with 31 IV ATK/SPD (Speed, I call Special Defense SPDF) compared to one with 31 HP/0ATK/31SPD.
I mean something like Tank mirror matches. Defense in such a case can provide the difference between a 2HKO, 3HKO, or more. (And make the big difference regardless of speed)



The key phrase here is Tank Mirror matches. The defense in such cases would be the same thus the IV spread will most likely be the same. The stat is way more important than the IVs are. For instance, what is the difference between the defense of an Aggron and a Cloyster? They both have thesame amount of defense at base so there will never be a situation where similar defense IVs would give an advantage to either pokemon

what happens in these situations is that people are forced to think differently. They must consider other options such as speed/offense/ type/ move pools/ natures/abilities etc. This is where a beneficial, albeit very minor, effect of IVs comes in: IV's mitigates gaps and create openings between pokemon
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nobody owes you anything but a roll of the eye, a kick in the ass, and gaffaw at how much you suck
#203The Eternal EvilPosted 9/27/2013 5:15:34 AM
You ever play against someone with no knowledge ov IVs or EVs? I ask this question with all seriousness. I've been to 5 VGC live tournaments in my life. 2 times I've made it to the final rounds, one time I didn't make it past the first game of the final rounds, the other time I made it to the semi finals. Granted those days were quite some time ago. My first experience with the finals was in Red and Blue after all.

Every other time I've made it to the fourth round of the tournaments.

And you know what? I can immediately tell who knows how to EV train and IV breed, and I can tell who is legitimately offering me some form of challenge or not.

Regardless of how good a choice they have of their pokemon, regardless of the right moves or not, I will almost always destroy someone by the third battle round a person who is clearly not in the know. I desroyed one guy so completely he wrote a battle report on it on smogon, how he was clearly completely out of his league against me, but was impressed because I seem like a genuinely nice guy and not what he expected from a player with that much knowledge of Pokemon.

So in the VGC games, I generally have an advantage, and my losses have almost always been nail biters.

So when someone tells me how little a difference things like IVs and to a lesser EVs because they're so easy to figure out. I'm reminded of my yearly attempts in the VGC and how wrong most of you actually are, and I have legitimate reason to question your knowledges of the competitive realm of battling, because what you say, is so much opposite of actual experience I have had in the competitiv e scene.
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One Trainer to rule them all, One Trainer to find them,
One Trainer to catch them all and in the Pokeball bind them. Legend of Legacy.
#204meiyukiPosted 9/27/2013 6:57:55 AM
What I find really curious about these topics is people claim they want to get gamefreak to change the mechanic. Ok so you believe the best way to go about that is to scream insults at people and act like 5 year olds throwing a temper tantrum? The best way to get that accomplished is to exaggerate, lie, insult, and misrepresent the system? Uh yeah good luck with that.

The RNG is understood and frame-perfect tricks for maximising your pokemon have been developed.


That's because of poor implementation of the rng. I know generating random numbers is a hard task for a computer but you can make an rng seed random enough that it becomes impossible to manipulate. But you can't seem to get past the point that your counter to eliminating hacks and exploits is to use hacks and exploits the very things I'm saying they should work to eliminate.
#205The Eternal EvilPosted 9/27/2013 7:47:53 AM
Point out where anyone lied exaggerated or did whatever else you claim meiyuki. Simply saying it doesn't make it true. Not that you ever use a proper counter arguement and only engage in essentially throwing a reverse temper tantrum back at people who are actively engaging in discussion of why such a bad sysytem should in fact be improved.

But its ok. We know that's a bit beyond your want to engage in.
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One Trainer to rule them all, One Trainer to find them,
One Trainer to catch them all and in the Pokeball bind them. Legend of Legacy.
#206meiyukiPosted 9/27/2013 7:57:17 AM
The Eternal Evil posted...
Point out where anyone lied exaggerated or did whatever else you claim meiyuki. Simply saying it doesn't make it true. Not that you ever use a proper counter arguement and only engage in essentially throwing a reverse temper tantrum back at people who are actively engaging in discussion of why such a bad sysytem should in fact be improved.

But its ok. We know that's a bit beyond your want to engage in.


So hostile. Well lets see one only needs to read this topic to see people engaging in name calling. Then there's everyone saying IVs are totally random, they are not as I pointed out, so that's completely false. Then there's all the people who claim it takes hundreds of hours to get good IVs, again it does not, that would be an exaggeration.

If you think peoplep are having an active discussion it is because you are blind to what your side is doing. Every one of these topics has had people insulting and attacking people who like the system as is. And I'd ask you to point out where I've done what you accuse me of doing because in this topic I've mostly been pointing out how to use the system and why I like it. It sure sounds to me like you think no one is allowed to make a counter point to the topic.
#207The Eternal EvilPosted 9/27/2013 7:57:32 AM
Oh and since insult are posted by both sides of the spectrum quite regularly saying it deters or adds to either side is quite disengenuous.

Your side like to insist our side doesn't know how to do things suck as EV train and IV breed, it's completely false but it is used as both an insult and as a means to attempt to belittle the point that this side is trying to make.

The simple fact that people like you only know about these systems in the first place thanks to hackers should be more then enough evidence as to how bad the current system actually is that the community relies on hackers just to properly learn these two mechanics. Instead you ramble on about how we are being misleading about how hard the mechanic is to learn.

Well i'd say needing a hacker to learn the mechanic is a pretty good sign the mechanic is a little bit harder then it should be to learn for something vital to gameplay.
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One Trainer to rule them all, One Trainer to find them,
One Trainer to catch them all and in the Pokeball bind them. Legend of Legacy.
#208The Eternal EvilPosted 9/27/2013 8:05:42 AM
Actually if you ever took time to read most peoples comments on hundreds of hours, they are referring to PERFECT IVs not Good IVs. I can get good IVs in a matter of minutes where as a hacker, and RNG abuser can get perfect desired IVs in minutes. To get the same IVs I would have to luck into them entirely after, hundreds of hours of breeding.

By the way how does it feel to need hackers to even learn the mechanic you're so fond of? That is perfect as is to the game, but needs hackers to even understand this core basic mechanic of the game?

Also once again you have not actually made any counter points. You are simply rambling.

Players talking about hundreds of hours are generally referring to the perfect IVs a hacker or RNG abuser gets in minutes. Making what you claim this side is doing actually your own mis interpretation.
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One Trainer to rule them all, One Trainer to find them,
One Trainer to catch them all and in the Pokeball bind them. Legend of Legacy.
#209erekwashere15Posted 9/27/2013 8:17:22 AM
IV's in Pokemon are the equivalent to the chance of getting a good card in a random booster pack for any card game.
Yea, it is more luck based, but the skilled players, the dedicated players, will take the time and/or spend the money to get the better cards, or in our case, better stats.

You aren't forced to use perfect IV's. You merely believe you are because with anything lower, the odds of a victory in your favor goes down. You want to maximize your chances of triumph, you have to spend the time to getting as good as you can possibly get.

Some people in life are lucky enough to naturally acquire bigger muscles, others can eat whatever they desire and not gain any weight, while others are naturally able to understand numbers easier.
For everyone else who wants to become stronger; to remain skinny; to become smarter, they have to actively work towards it.

You argue that keeping IV's in encourages hacking. The people complaining about how hard it is to obtain IV's are the ones hacking them in. Why would anybody who doesn't consider them a pain need to hack for them?

But the most important thing, you're complaining about a mechanic the developers themselves have kept in for how long? And you think that posting your thoughts on a forum the developers won't visit is ever going to change that? If you actually want to make a difference, find their most visited Pokemon discussion sites and take your argument there.

Or just accept that you'll never win, and move on with your lives.
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Winner of ares9090's Slaking Award
#210meiyukiPosted 9/27/2013 8:19:46 AM
The Eternal Evil posted...

By the way how does it feel to need hackers to even learn the mechanic you're so fond of? That is perfect as is to the game, but needs hackers to even understand this core basic mechanic of the game?


There is no need for hackers to understand the system. People have discovered much more complex systems in video games without hacking. There are plenty of ways to discover the system exists and design experiments to uncover it's details. Can you even prove hackers were the first to discover the system? Though even if they were it doesn't invalidate it because it can be discovered through experimentation.

But lets go to the extreme, lets say there is no way to discover how the system works and it's totally random, with no way to control it whatsoever. It serves no purpose other than to add pure randomness to battles. Does that invalidate the system? No, lets of competitive games have pure randomness involved that can decide the outcome of tournaments.

You can keep saying people arn't making points but it doesn't make it true.