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Charizard X learns thunderpunch and crunch

#21joker120Posted 10/2/2013 10:48:17 AM
ectoBiologist posted...
raptor36000 posted...
Atrabelos posted...
raptor36000 posted...
KyrieIrving posted...
still garbage


How exactly?It has an 80 base speed stat.It will rarely have speed boost outside of mega evolution due to LEGIT speed boost blazikens being incredibly rare not to mention the fact that neither hi jump kick nor flare blitz are super effective on zard.Only an idiot would carry a Speed boost blaziken with Stone edge and replace Protect Swords dance Hi jump kick and?or flare blitz.


Just ran Speed Boost max Attack/Speed Adamant Blaziken through Smogon's damage calculator, versus a Fire/Dragon Charizard.

While COMPLETELY disregarding the Attack boost that Mega Blaziken gets, on a non-boosted Hi Jump Kick against a Fire/Dragon Charizard with a physical sweeper set (0/252/4/0/0/252, optimized for Belly Drum), Blaziken will deal 268 - 316 damage, or 90.5% - 106.8% of Charizard's health, assuming that he has 30 HP IVs (so that he can live through SR and Belly Drum with 1 HP left).

Again, this is completely disregarding the fact that Mega Blaziken gets a substantial bonus to Attack, which would take the attack from "potential OHKO" to "pretty much guaranteed OHKO."

Get over yourself.

How exactly is it going to hit charizard before charizard hits it?If charizard has dragon dance then blaziken loses because Charizard has a substantially higher speed as compared to blaziken.If he protects the first turn then charizard dragon dances.Going up for a straight up Hi Jump Kick without any boosts would be suicide.And charizard Y takes speedboost blaziken to the corner and does unspeakable things to it.


look, charizard isn't as strong and epic as you think he is. speed boost blaziken wrecks him, and you need to accept that.

gonna be a lot of fun ko'ing kiddies with their "super epic mega charizard x" pokemon over wifi. the tears will be delicious.


He's right though. It basically becomes a tie depending on who out predicts who.
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soul silver FC:1505 7978 9391; pearl FC:3911 0786 2278
#22raptor36000(Topic Creator)Posted 10/2/2013 10:49:31 AM
ectoBiologist posted...
raptor36000 posted...
Atrabelos posted...
raptor36000 posted...
KyrieIrving posted...
still garbage


How exactly?It has an 80 base speed stat.It will rarely have speed boost outside of mega evolution due to LEGIT speed boost blazikens being incredibly rare not to mention the fact that neither hi jump kick nor flare blitz are super effective on zard.Only an idiot would carry a Speed boost blaziken with Stone edge and replace Protect Swords dance Hi jump kick and?or flare blitz.


Just ran Speed Boost max Attack/Speed Adamant Blaziken through Smogon's damage calculator, versus a Fire/Dragon Charizard.

While COMPLETELY disregarding the Attack boost that Mega Blaziken gets, on a non-boosted Hi Jump Kick against a Fire/Dragon Charizard with a physical sweeper set (0/252/4/0/0/252, optimized for Belly Drum), Blaziken will deal 268 - 316 damage, or 90.5% - 106.8% of Charizard's health, assuming that he has 30 HP IVs (so that he can live through SR and Belly Drum with 1 HP left).

Again, this is completely disregarding the fact that Mega Blaziken gets a substantial bonus to Attack, which would take the attack from "potential OHKO" to "pretty much guaranteed OHKO."

Get over yourself.

How exactly is it going to hit charizard before charizard hits it?If charizard has dragon dance then blaziken loses because Charizard has a substantially higher speed as compared to blaziken.If he protects the first turn then charizard dragon dances.Going up for a straight up Hi Jump Kick without any boosts would be suicide.And charizard Y takes speedboost blaziken to the corner and does unspeakable things to it.


look, charizard isn't as strong and epic as you think he is. speed boost blaziken wrecks him, and you need to accept that.

gonna be a lot of fun ko'ing kiddies with their "super epic mega charizard x" pokemon over wifi. the tears will be delicious.

You still havent countered my statement.Hell i actually like squirte more than charmander.But that has nothing to do with this.The thing is both Charizard X and Y Clearly beat Blaziken one on one and so far are shaping up to be more versatile whether charizard haters like it or not.Gonna be fun Ko'ing egoistic pricks who hate stuff majority of the public likes just for the hell of it.
This Gen is doing for charizard what gen 5 did for Blaziken and you need to accept that.
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3ds FC:4098 2827 4195
#23AtrabelosPosted 10/2/2013 10:56:08 AM(edited)
raptor36000 posted...
Atrabelos posted...
raptor36000 posted...
KyrieIrving posted...
still garbage


How exactly?It has an 80 base speed stat.It will rarely have speed boost outside of mega evolution due to LEGIT speed boost blazikens being incredibly rare not to mention the fact that neither hi jump kick nor flare blitz are super effective on zard.Only an idiot would carry a Speed boost blaziken with Stone edge and replace Protect Swords dance Hi jump kick and?or flare blitz.


Just ran Speed Boost max Attack/Speed Adamant Blaziken through Smogon's damage calculator, versus a Fire/Dragon Charizard.

While COMPLETELY disregarding the Attack boost that Mega Blaziken gets, on a non-boosted Hi Jump Kick against a Fire/Dragon Charizard with a physical sweeper set (0/252/4/0/0/252, optimized for Belly Drum), Blaziken will deal 268 - 316 damage, or 90.5% - 106.8% of Charizard's health, assuming that he has 30 HP IVs (so that he can live through SR and Belly Drum with 1 HP left).

Again, this is completely disregarding the fact that Mega Blaziken gets a substantial bonus to Attack, which would take the attack from "potential OHKO" to "pretty much guaranteed OHKO."

Get over yourself.

How exactly is it going to hit charizard before charizard hits it?If charizard has dragon dance then blaziken loses because Charizard has a substantially higher speed as compared to blaziken.If he protects the first turn then charizard dragon dances.Going up for a straight up Hi Jump Kick without any boosts would be suicide.And charizard Y takes speedboost blaziken to the corner and does unspeakable things to it.


Then it's a prediction game.

If Charizard uses Dragon Dance and Blaziken counters with Hi Jump Kick, Charizard loses.

If Charizard uses Dragon Dance and Blaziken counters with Protect, then Blaziken can easily switch out the next turn.

But that's disregarding a lot of factors like Blaziken risking the Protect on the second turn, Charizard going for the attack, Choice Band on either of them (EDIT: Megas can't equip items so this is a moot point), etc. So it's not really indicative of every matchup between them.

There's also the fact that Blaziken became Uber due to how good it was at shredding teams, while "extra physical attack, a better typing, and some more extra physical attack" isn't Uber material with paper defenses and base 100 Speed.

And Charizard Y doing unspeakable things to Speed Boost Blaziken? Ha ha nope. Special Charizard doesn't have any moves equivalent to Dragon Dance that boost both Speed and Special Attack, so once Blaziken gets a Speed Boost off with a guaranteed Protect, it's game.

tl;dr you're blinded by your own bias and unwilling to acknowledge facts.
#24raptor36000(Topic Creator)Posted 10/2/2013 10:55:55 AM
Possible.Though thats really not the case with Charizard Y vs Blaziken.Not to mention Hi jump Kick could miss and It still doesnt have a 100% chance to KO.
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3ds FC:4098 2827 4195
#25Slayerblade11Posted 10/2/2013 10:56:22 AM
How does one pokemon beating another pokemon 1v1 make it better? It's like saying that Spirit tomb is better than Mewtwo because it beats it 1 vs 1.
#26raptor36000(Topic Creator)Posted 10/2/2013 10:58:57 AM
Slayerblade11 posted...
How does one pokemon beating another pokemon 1v1 make it better? It's like saying that Spirit tomb is better than Mewtwo because it beats it 1 vs 1.


Im not saying its better.Im saying it can defeat blaziken one on one and is more versatile than blaziken who can run only one possible set.
PS:Mewtwo still kills Spiritomb with Ice Beam
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3ds FC:4098 2827 4195
#27JarickoPosted 10/2/2013 11:01:13 AM
raptor36000 posted...
Slayerblade11 posted...
How does one pokemon beating another pokemon 1v1 make it better? It's like saying that Spirit tomb is better than Mewtwo because it beats it 1 vs 1.


Im not saying its better.Im saying it can defeat blaziken one on one and is more versatile than blaziken who can run only one possible set.
PS:Mewtwo still kills Spiritomb with Ice Beam


Foul play?
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Jaricko - Official Venustoise of the omniverse / bacon in the fridge for all those who cry out in hunger of the Gamefaq's 3ds boards.
#28raptor36000(Topic Creator)Posted 10/2/2013 11:05:58 AM
Atrabelos posted...
raptor36000 posted...
Atrabelos posted...
raptor36000 posted...
KyrieIrving posted...
still garbage


How exactly?It has an 80 base speed stat.It will rarely have speed boost outside of mega evolution due to LEGIT speed boost blazikens being incredibly rare not to mention the fact that neither hi jump kick nor flare blitz are super effective on zard.Only an idiot would carry a Speed boost blaziken with Stone edge and replace Protect Swords dance Hi jump kick and?or flare blitz.


Just ran Speed Boost max Attack/Speed Adamant Blaziken through Smogon's damage calculator, versus a Fire/Dragon Charizard.

While COMPLETELY disregarding the Attack boost that Mega Blaziken gets, on a non-boosted Hi Jump Kick against a Fire/Dragon Charizard with a physical sweeper set (0/252/4/0/0/252, optimized for Belly Drum), Blaziken will deal 268 - 316 damage, or 90.5% - 106.8% of Charizard's health, assuming that he has 30 HP IVs (so that he can live through SR and Belly Drum with 1 HP left).

Again, this is completely disregarding the fact that Mega Blaziken gets a substantial bonus to Attack, which would take the attack from "potential OHKO" to "pretty much guaranteed OHKO."

Get over yourself.

How exactly is it going to hit charizard before charizard hits it?If charizard has dragon dance then blaziken loses because Charizard has a substantially higher speed as compared to blaziken.If he protects the first turn then charizard dragon dances.Going up for a straight up Hi Jump Kick without any boosts would be suicide.And charizard Y takes speedboost blaziken to the corner and does unspeakable things to it.


Then it's a prediction game.

If Charizard uses Dragon Dance and Blaziken counters with Hi Jump Kick, Charizard loses.

If Charizard uses Dragon Dance and Blaziken counters with Protect, then Blaziken can easily switch out the next turn.

But that's disregarding a lot of factors like Blaziken risking the Protect on the second turn, Charizard going for the attack, Choice Band on either of them (EDIT: Megas can't equip items so this is a moot point), etc. So it's not really indicative of every matchup between them.

There's also the fact that Blaziken became Uber due to how good it was at shredding teams, while "extra physical attack, a better typing, and some more extra physical attack" isn't Uber material with paper defenses and base 100 Speed.

And Charizard Y doing unspeakable things to Speed Boost Blaziken? Ha ha nope. Special Charizard doesn't have any moves equivalent to Dragon Dance that boost both Speed and Special Attack, so once Blaziken gets a Speed Boost off with a guaranteed Protect, it's game.

tl;dr you're blinded by your own bias and unwilling to acknowledge facts.

Neither Hi Jump kick nor Flare blitz can kill Charizard Y whereas Air Slash can and will kill blaziken in one hit.Blaziken would have to get one swords dance in at which point Mega Charizard Y would hit it with Air slash.Also charizard learns tailwind which is one of the best supportive moves in the metagame.
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3ds FC:4098 2827 4195
#29Slayerblade11Posted 10/2/2013 11:11:26 AM
raptor36000 posted...
Slayerblade11 posted...
How does one pokemon beating another pokemon 1v1 make it better? It's like saying that Spirit tomb is better than Mewtwo because it beats it 1 vs 1.


Im not saying its better.Im saying it can defeat blaziken one on one and is more versatile than blaziken who can run only one possible set.
PS:Mewtwo still kills Spiritomb with Ice Beam


It's more versatile but it's still an objectively weaker pokemon. Also max sp choice specs Ice Beam only does 43.09 - 50.98% to max sp def Spirit tomb. Straight 1 vs 1 Mewtwo loses to Spiritomb unless it runs some really weird niche set that is useless against everything else.
#30raptor36000(Topic Creator)Posted 10/2/2013 11:12:08 AM
Jaricko posted...
raptor36000 posted...
Slayerblade11 posted...
How does one pokemon beating another pokemon 1v1 make it better? It's like saying that Spirit tomb is better than Mewtwo because it beats it 1 vs 1.


Im not saying its better.Im saying it can defeat blaziken one on one and is more versatile than blaziken who can run only one possible set.
PS:Mewtwo still kills Spiritomb with Ice Beam


Foul play?


Foul play uses the opponents Atk not SP atk mewtwo has good Sp atk not Atk.Any mewtwo would have a timid or modest nature which would render damage from Foul play minimal.Also Mewtwo is way faster than spiritomb so it would probably 2HKO it if not OHKO it.
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3ds FC:4098 2827 4195