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Theorymon: Interpreting what defines a Fairy-type

#21Graves124Posted 11/9/2013 5:47:04 PM
Some people are saying Fairys are tricksters and therefor not inherently good, but from what I know about sprites and Fairys it seems like they are only tricksters because they are pure hearted, like children, not thinking about the conciquences, and therefor inherently good. They do pranks and trickery for the sake of fun, not because they hate people.

Also, why do you consider Granbull evil in any way? Ive never read anything of him being evil or malicious, just ugly.

Also, Absol is an inherently good pokemon, arguably the nicest, considering it knows it's hated but it still warns people of impending disasters, yet its Dark-type.
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#22TutelarSwordPosted 11/9/2013 5:48:59 PM
DryGuy84 posted...
Alright, what I learned from this is I should do more research before posting my thoughts. Thank you all for responding! I will make sure to get better at this for next time, because this was a disaster. I had misinformation, oversights, and way less research than I should've had for a solid argument. I'm going to let this die now.


One thing you should keep in mind is that you should ALWAYS do research. It is much better to have too much than too little. If you are still in school then this will help you a ton on any research papers.
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#23RDS1Posted 11/9/2013 6:02:16 PM
Graves124 posted...
Also, why do you consider Granbull evil in any way? Ive never read anything of him being evil or malicious, just ugly.


Yeah, I think Mawile would have made a better example for this. It's pretty much explicitly described, in its Pokedex entries, as lulling foes into lowering their guard before suckerpunching the **** out of them with its beartrap-mouth, and about half its natural movepool consists of Dark-type attacks.
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#24DryGuy84(Topic Creator)Posted 11/9/2013 6:02:28 PM
TutelarSword posted...
DryGuy84 posted...
Alright, what I learned from this is I should do more research before posting my thoughts. Thank you all for responding! I will make sure to get better at this for next time, because this was a disaster. I had misinformation, oversights, and way less research than I should've had for a solid argument. I'm going to let this die now.


One thing you should keep in mind is that you should ALWAYS do research. It is much better to have too much than too little. If you are still in school then this will help you a ton on any research papers.


I'm in college. Writing has always been a weak point for me. This type of thing is how I plan on improving it, it's good practice imo.
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#25kitsuruPosted 11/9/2013 6:12:47 PM
nuke2099 posted...
yzman posted...

Fairies are often shown as being tricksters in fairy tales, not necessarily good/light.

The hole in you argument is that you don't have one. You provided very little basis for your theory, just what you believe.


Except in fairy tails faeries are not good against dragons and cannot stand up to them at all. Magical items are meant for dragons if that's what you meant. The fairy type in this game is meant to represent magic as a whole I think....but then so do the other types/elements when you think about it.

(Waits for future dragon/fairy).


The Lady of the Lake in Arthurian cycles, often referred to as a fairy, blessed a sword that was used to slay a dragon. Other folklores have heroes using weaponry of similar origins--there's at least one tale that I know of (can't remember the name at the moment) features the son of a smith who, after being kidnapped by fairies, becomes one of the greatest smiths in the world himself.

Moreover, back to the TC's original point about fairies being 'good'--no. Some folklore features the fey as benevolent or at least non-aggressive towards humans--such as the above example, the titular character of Spencer's 'The Faerie Queen', stories of brownies and other 'house fairies', etc. Others--perhaps most famously 'A Midsummer Night's Dream'--feature meddlesome trickster sprites such as Puck (and, although less of a trickster, his master Oberon was very much a meddler as well) who, though not aggressive towards humans, had no qualms with manipulating their fates on a whim.

And then we get into the darker side of fairy lore; fairies, trolls, and goblins snatching babies and young women (namely those in 'liminal', or new, states, such as new mothers and brides) and replacing them with their children and elders and even beglamoured (a glamour was a fairy-made illusion) logs that would eventually sicken and die. Changeling swaps were made for a variety of reasons depending on the tale; pure evil or simple mischief was as common as envy or love for a particularly cute human baby. Other children were kidnapped as human sacrifices (see 'The Ballad of Tam Lin')Mothers were often kidnapped temporarily to act as fairy midwives or for seven years to nurse fairy children (for an example, google 'The Queen of Elfhame's Nourice'). Humans of all ages and genders might be lured into fairy lands for years at a time--and find out that centuries had passed in the human world without their knowing, and in that revelation crumble to dust themselves. Even Puck has a dark side, having been linked to the pwca/kelpie; a horse-shaped sidhe (fairy) with seaweed in it's mane that lured the unwary onto it's back in order to drown them.

One more little detail: changelings were identified through several methods; ranging from making nutritious family meals or brewing mead in eggshells to get the changeling baby to talk and reveal itself in surprise (which could be linked to the points made about Chansey and Togekiss), to beating them, to bathing babies in deadly nightshade (makes the poison weakness make more sense, too). Iron nails were laid in beds occupied by mothers and children to keep them SAFE from changelings, as being taken was considered a worse fate than an infant rolling onto a sharp mail in the middle of the night.

tldr; I took a class on storytelling and want to show off my massive nerdiness. There are 'good', or rather, benevolent fairies, but there's also a lot to be said of how feared others were.
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#26FryDays5000Posted 11/9/2013 6:41:41 PM(edited)
kitsuru posted...
nuke2099 posted...
yzman posted...

Fairies are often shown as being tricksters in fairy tales, not necessarily good/light.

The hole in you argument is that you don't have one. You provided very little basis for your theory, just what you believe.


Except in fairy tails faeries are not good against dragons and cannot stand up to them at all. Magical items are meant for dragons if that's what you meant. The fairy type in this game is meant to represent magic as a whole I think....but then so do the other types/elements when you think about it.

(Waits for future dragon/fairy).


The Lady of the Lake in Arthurian cycles, often referred to as a fairy, blessed a sword that was used to slay a dragon. Other folklores have heroes using weaponry of similar origins--there's at least one tale that I know of (can't remember the name at the moment) features the son of a smith who, after being kidnapped by fairies, becomes one of the greatest smiths in the world himself.

Moreover, back to the TC's original point about fairies being 'good'--no. Some folklore features the fey as benevolent or at least non-aggressive towards humans--such as the above example, the titular character of Spencer's 'The Faerie Queen', stories of brownies and other 'house fairies', etc. Others--perhaps most famously 'A Midsummer Night's Dream'--feature meddlesome trickster sprites such as Puck (and, although less of a trickster, his master Oberon was very much a meddler as well) who, though not aggressive towards humans, had no qualms with manipulating their fates on a whim.

And then we get into the darker side of fairy lore; fairies, trolls, and goblins snatching babies and young women (namely those in 'liminal', or new, states, such as new mothers and brides) and replacing them with their children and elders and even beglamoured (a glamour was a fairy-made illusion) logs that would eventually sicken and die. Changeling swaps were made for a variety of reasons depending on the tale; pure evil or simple mischief was as common as envy or love for a particularly cute human baby. Other children were kidnapped as human sacrifices (see 'The Ballad of Tam Lin')Mothers were often kidnapped temporarily to act as fairy midwives or for seven years to nurse fairy children (for an example, google 'The Queen of Elfhame's Nourice'). Humans of all ages and genders might be lured into fairy lands for years at a time--and find out that centuries had passed in the human world without their knowing, and in that revelation crumble to dust themselves. Even Puck has a dark side, having been linked to the pwca/kelpie; a horse-shaped sidhe (fairy) with seaweed in it's mane that lured the unwary onto it's back in order to drown them.

One more little detail: changelings were identified through several methods; ranging from making nutritious family meals or brewing mead in eggshells to get the changeling baby to talk and reveal itself in surprise (which could be linked to the points made about Chansey and Togekiss), to beating them, to bathing babies in deadly nightshade (makes the poison weakness make more sense, too). Iron nails were laid in beds occupied by mothers and children to keep them SAFE from changelings, as being taken was considered a worse fate than an infant rolling onto a sharp mail in the middle of the night.

tldr; I took a class on storytelling and want to show off my massive nerdiness. There are 'good', or rather, benevolent fairies, but there's also a lot to be said of how feared others were.
This was quite a good read. Thank you for sharing your knowledge to others that might need it. I envy your story telling skills kitsuru :)
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#27OMGitsGamerPosted 11/9/2013 6:48:54 PM
This is a good speculation :)
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#28IrishMercenaryPosted 11/9/2013 7:14:32 PM
TL:DR
TC does not understand the term Theorymon
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#29nuke2099Posted 11/10/2013 5:14:43 AM
kitsuru posted...
nuke2099 posted...
yzman posted...

Fairies are often shown as being tricksters in fairy tales, not necessarily good/light.

The hole in you argument is that you don't have one. You provided very little basis for your theory, just what you believe.


Except in fairy tails faeries are not good against dragons and cannot stand up to them at all. Magical items are meant for dragons if that's what you meant. The fairy type in this game is meant to represent magic as a whole I think....but then so do the other types/elements when you think about it.

(Waits for future dragon/fairy).


The Lady of the Lake in Arthurian cycles, often referred to as a fairy, blessed a sword that was used to slay a dragon. Other folklores have heroes using weaponry of similar origins--there's at least one tale that I know of (can't remember the name at the moment) features the son of a smith who, after being kidnapped by fairies, becomes one of the greatest smiths in the world himself.

Moreover, back to the TC's original point about fairies being 'good'--no. Some folklore features the fey as benevolent or at least non-aggressive towards humans--such as the above example, the titular character of Spencer's 'The Faerie Queen', stories of brownies and other 'house fairies', etc. Others--perhaps most famously 'A Midsummer Night's Dream'--feature meddlesome trickster sprites such as Puck (and, although less of a trickster, his master Oberon was very much a meddler as well) who, though not aggressive towards humans, had no qualms with manipulating their fates on a whim.

And then we get into the darker side of fairy lore; fairies, trolls, and goblins snatching babies and young women (namely those in 'liminal', or new, states, such as new mothers and brides) and replacing them with their children and elders and even beglamoured (a glamour was a fairy-made illusion) logs that would eventually sicken and die. Changeling swaps were made for a variety of reasons depending on the tale; pure evil or simple mischief was as common as envy or love for a particularly cute human baby. Other children were kidnapped as human sacrifices (see 'The Ballad of Tam Lin')Mothers were often kidnapped temporarily to act as fairy midwives or for seven years to nurse fairy children (for an example, google 'The Queen of Elfhame's Nourice'). Humans of all ages and genders might be lured into fairy lands for years at a time--and find out that centuries had passed in the human world without their knowing, and in that revelation crumble to dust themselves. Even Puck has a dark side, having been linked to the pwca/kelpie; a horse-shaped sidhe (fairy) with seaweed in it's mane that lured the unwary onto it's back in order to drown them.

One more little detail: changelings were identified through several methods; ranging from making nutritious family meals or brewing mead in eggshells to get the changeling baby to talk and reveal itself in surprise (which could be linked to the points made about Chansey and Togekiss), to beating them, to bathing babies in deadly nightshade (makes the poison weakness make more sense, too). Iron nails were laid in beds occupied by mothers and children to keep them SAFE from changelings, as being taken was considered a worse fate than an infant rolling onto a sharp mail in the middle of the night.

tldr; I took a class on storytelling and want to show off my massive nerdiness. There are 'good', or rather, benevolent fairies, but there's also a lot to be said of how feared others were.


So beyond the massive wall of writing you actually agreed with me that magical items are needed....could of just said that lmao.
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