This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

According to Serebii's PotW, Delphox sucks

#121Crimson_SpiderPosted 11/12/2013 4:15:53 AM
WolfJounin posted...
Crimson_Spider posted...
If Delphox uses hypnosis, light screen, mystical fire, or substitute, then the gengar switch-in is still pretty screwed. Also if Delphox is running something like choice scarf + switcheroo, then gengar would be killed in 2 attacks. I haven't run the numbers with choice specs, though.


Hypnosis isn't very accurate, light screen is no good because Gengar can sub-disable Psychic if you didn't outright kill it, nobody serious runs mystical fire with its lacking bulk, and same as light screen in the case of substitute. Again this is all assuming Gengar switches in on Delphox, 1 situation out of 5 (the others being that both are out at the start, Gengar switches in after something is killed, Delphox switches in, and Delphox switches in after something is killed), and even then if you didn't predict Gengar and didn't use Psychic/Psystrike or land Hypnosis, Delphox loses.



Sub + Disable just means that, with the slightest inkling of prediction, delphox can still obliterate gengar without worry. If an opponent switches gengar in to delphox, and then proceeds to use substitute, just play 20 questions and ask whats next. End result being gengar loses 25% of its HP, and then gets hit with mystical fire/flamethrower/fireblast, and it'll still take two attacks to KO the fox who can now do it in one.

Lets be serious here: You'd never risk switching gengar into delphox. There's a dozen ways that can go wrong. You'll be switching in something else more reliable, or at the very least trying to sacrifice a poke first (in which case, Delphox just +1 against you and is pretty good if it forces you to do this). Switching in a poke when the opponent has a very high chance of disabling you or outright killing you from max in one hit is stupid, and the fact that you are arguing this point speaks more about your skills than it does mine.

Gengar revenge-killing delphox is tricky, since choice sets exist, and it is likely that substitute or light screen would still be up for support sets. Likewise, Delphox should only be switched in to gengar if it is holding a choice item, but this is true of pretty much anything that isn't +130 base speed.
---
Rest in Peace City of Heroes: April 27, 2004 - November 30, 2012. We will miss you.
Cause of death: "Realignment of Company Focus" by NCsoft.
#122Amenhotep01Posted 11/12/2013 4:20:24 AM
Gameandwatch2 posted...
Pretty much anything that outspeeds Mega Gengar can KO it, so that's not much of a point.


Yeah it's true, but my point is simple, the author is emphasizing that delphox doesn't stand a chance against m.gengar, that's what i'm pointing about, he is bias towards delphox like he is hating the pokemon for a reason. XD
#123BlueHarvestPOTWPosted 11/12/2013 8:50:58 AM
Amenhotep01 posted...
Gameandwatch2 posted...
Pretty much anything that outspeeds Mega Gengar can KO it, so that's not much of a point.


Yeah it's true, but my point is simple, the author is emphasizing that delphox doesn't stand a chance against m.gengar, that's what i'm pointing about, he is bias towards delphox like he is hating the pokemon for a reason. XD


Mega Gengar can't switch in on much. But Mega Gengar has Shadow Tag meaning if Delphox ever gets a KO, uses Grass Knot, Hidden Power, non boosted Fire moves, gets hit by U-turn, Volt Switch, or Baton Pass M Gengar will get a free switch in and KO Delphox.

If you are using Light Screen, Mystical Fire or whatever else to beat Mega Gengar then you are sacrificing the ability to do pretty much the only thing Delphox is good at (offensive sweeping).
#124Amenhotep01Posted 11/12/2013 10:19:02 AM
BlueHarvestPOTW posted...
Amenhotep01 posted...
Gameandwatch2 posted...
Pretty much anything that outspeeds Mega Gengar can KO it, so that's not much of a point.


Yeah it's true, but my point is simple, the author is emphasizing that delphox doesn't stand a chance against m.gengar, that's what i'm pointing about, he is bias towards delphox like he is hating the pokemon for a reason. XD


Mega Gengar can't switch in on much. But Mega Gengar has Shadow Tag meaning if Delphox ever gets a KO, uses Grass Knot, Hidden Power, non boosted Fire moves, gets hit by U-turn, Volt Switch, or Baton Pass M Gengar will get a free switch in and KO Delphox.

If you are using Light Screen, Mystical Fire or whatever else to beat Mega Gengar then you are sacrificing the ability to do pretty much the only thing Delphox is good at (offensive sweeping).


In other words, those statements mean that m.gengar will only KO Delphox with the help of other teammates and circumstances, not face to face. And i think delphox is not only good at sweeping but also to support teammates if utilized well.
#125gatz900Posted 11/12/2013 10:45:51 AM
Skyknight posted...
Wait...Are you seriously trying to suggest that only the on-line simulators are worthwhile for competition...?


This, along with what you wrote in your potw (specifically, "at worst a bottom of the barrel NU sweeper") has me questioning your "expertise" as just narrow-minded elitism. I definitely don't think delphox is OU but it isn't pure junk either.
---
3DS FC: 1821-9521-7577 ign space
Pokemon bw2 fc: 1378 9885 3064
#126JmandalPosted 11/12/2013 10:54:21 AM
I think I was just really disappointed by the fact Delphox does not receive thunderbolt being a wand user and all. I think it's biggest set back is it's limited movepool. Also magician would have been a much better ability if it would activated as soon as you used a fire gem.
---
3DS FC: 2079-7184-6866
Black FC: 2451 5933 0679
#127deidara21Posted 11/12/2013 11:17:36 AM
Why is this guy acting as if OU is the only tier in existence?
---
Boy:Cream?
Girl:No thank you. I take it black, *sips coffee* like my men.
#128BlueHarvestPOTWPosted 11/12/2013 12:10:44 PM
gatz900 posted...
Skyknight posted...
Wait...Are you seriously trying to suggest that only the on-line simulators are worthwhile for competition...?


This, along with what you wrote in your potw (specifically, "at worst a bottom of the barrel NU sweeper") has me questioning your "expertise" as just narrow-minded elitism. I definitely don't think delphox is OU but it isn't pure junk either.


Elitism? How is it elitism? Delphox is crap. Based off the 5th gen power levels Delphox would probably make RU. 6th gen will have slightly stronger lower tiers as things like Haxorus, Hydreigon, and Starmie drop from OU. Delphox MIGHT end up NU (though it will probably be very good in NU).


However I can't even write about Delphox in lower tiers because right now THEY DON'T EXIST. OU, Ubers, and Little Cup are the only tiers being played right now. Delphox doesn't even have a competitive past to base its theoretical tiering on. Sorry, but it isn't a good Pokemon. It might find some use in lower tiers once they are established, but until they actually are we won't know how good it is.

My estimates though is it will probably be RU at best. It isn't amazing at anything.
#129hiphops_saviorPosted 11/12/2013 12:16:37 PM
BlueHarvestPOTW posted...
gatz900 posted...
Skyknight posted...
Wait...Are you seriously trying to suggest that only the on-line simulators are worthwhile for competition...?


This, along with what you wrote in your potw (specifically, "at worst a bottom of the barrel NU sweeper") has me questioning your "expertise" as just narrow-minded elitism. I definitely don't think delphox is OU but it isn't pure junk either.


Elitism? How is it elitism? Delphox is crap. Based off the 5th gen power levels Delphox would probably make RU. 6th gen will have slightly stronger lower tiers as things like Haxorus, Hydreigon, and Starmie drop from OU. Delphox MIGHT end up NU (though it will probably be very good in NU).


However I can't even write about Delphox in lower tiers because right now THEY DON'T EXIST. OU, Ubers, and Little Cup are the only tiers being played right now. Delphox doesn't even have a competitive past to base its theoretical tiering on. Sorry, but it isn't a good Pokemon. It might find some use in lower tiers once they are established, but until they actually are we won't know how good it is.

My estimates though is it will probably be RU at best. It isn't amazing at anything.


1. The power creep is nowhere near as bad as Gen 5 was.
2. Delphox can Wil-O-Wisp physical attackers

Delphox's main problem is that it can support a little, attack a little, but does not excel at either. Houndoom is immune to both STABs, and can pursuit trap.
#130applebutter2Posted 11/12/2013 1:20:32 PM
hiphops_savior posted...
BlueHarvestPOTW posted...
gatz900 posted...
Skyknight posted...
Wait...Are you seriously trying to suggest that only the on-line simulators are worthwhile for competition...?


This, along with what you wrote in your potw (specifically, "at worst a bottom of the barrel NU sweeper") has me questioning your "expertise" as just narrow-minded elitism. I definitely don't think delphox is OU but it isn't pure junk either.


Elitism? How is it elitism? Delphox is crap. Based off the 5th gen power levels Delphox would probably make RU. 6th gen will have slightly stronger lower tiers as things like Haxorus, Hydreigon, and Starmie drop from OU. Delphox MIGHT end up NU (though it will probably be very good in NU).


However I can't even write about Delphox in lower tiers because right now THEY DON'T EXIST. OU, Ubers, and Little Cup are the only tiers being played right now. Delphox doesn't even have a competitive past to base its theoretical tiering on. Sorry, but it isn't a good Pokemon. It might find some use in lower tiers once they are established, but until they actually are we won't know how good it is.

My estimates though is it will probably be RU at best. It isn't amazing at anything.


1. The power creep is nowhere near as bad as Gen 5 was.
2. Delphox can Wil-O-Wisp physical attackers

Delphox's main problem is that it can support a little, attack a little, but does not excel at either. Houndoom is immune to both STABs, and can pursuit trap.


The lack of power creep doesn't mean the lower tiers won't be altered any less. The issue is there are more pokemon which means less room in OU so things like BH mentioned dropping will effectively lead to a power creep of sorts in the lower tiers which doesn't help Delphox.

And for the love of god can we stop pretending Will-o-Wisp is a good move on Delphox already? It would be much smarter to put it on something that won't just die in one hit anyway, and it's not really something unique to Delphox as a fire type. Even Victini gets it but doesn't use it since it has better things to be doing (attacking) and Delphox should be used the same way (offensively) because quite frankly is sucks at supporting. I have no clue why so many people here are under the illusion that Delphox might be some godly utility mon just because it has a few decent support moves, though anyone with half a brain would realize it doesn't have the stats to use it well at all.