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Anyone else feel like Bug type really needs something...more?

#31paipr(Topic Creator)Posted 11/24/2013 11:33:56 AM
Its a shame too cause bug types do have a good variety of attacks. And sure most bug types are built to be early game mons, replaced mid to late game. And yes there have been some great additions to the bug type line up in gen 4,5. Gen 6's mega bug types while sure great only one of those really needed that upgrade, and the upgrade it got was to the infamous Bug/Flying combo.
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#32omega bahumatPosted 11/24/2013 11:59:34 AM
RAcastBlaster posted...
omega bahumat posted...
Chronostatic posted...
paipr posted...
Vivilion should have been Bug/Fairy. Why give us yet another Bug/Flying type with subpar stats. Oh it has a gimmick that means you have to trade with people from all over the world x16? Strangely enough thats not reason enough for another Bug/Flying with subpar stats.


To be fair, Viviion is pretty good, will probably be a solid UU.


I thought so too, but after extensive testing I've realized it's speed is too sub-par to outperform anything and it's frail so you either have to run focus sash or choice scarf and heaven forbid something outspeed you naturally or you run into another scarfer and that's to make use of Sleep Powder as it's best move.

It's SA isn't anything to write home about either. It has Bug Buzz, Energy Ball and Hurricane as well as Quiver Dance but it needs QD to become a sweeper and then you don't get good coverage because why aren't you running sleep powder.


The best set is:

Vivillion @ Compound Eyes
Leftovers
Timid
252 SpAtk/ 252 Spd/ 4 HP (I'm sure you could debate about the speed EVs due to it's weird base speed, but for the sake of simplicity, I'll stick with this)
~Quiver Dance
~Sleep Powder
~Hurricane
~Sub

Nothing is immune to Hurricane and it has 30% Confusion rate on top of it. You come in on something slow, Sleep Powder, Sub, Buff, and sweep. It's REALLY good, give it a try.

Pair it with Sticky Web Galvantula for horrifyingly good results. (though that's true for any buffing sweeper XD)


It's still vulernable to SR, gets pretty nearly 1HKO'd by Choice Band Scizor, gets 1HKO'd by Volcarona

etc
#33RAcastBlasterPosted 11/24/2013 12:28:47 PM(edited)
omega bahumat posted...
RAcastBlaster posted...
omega bahumat posted...
Chronostatic posted...
paipr posted...
Vivilion should have been Bug/Fairy. Why give us yet another Bug/Flying type with subpar stats. Oh it has a gimmick that means you have to trade with people from all over the world x16? Strangely enough thats not reason enough for another Bug/Flying with subpar stats.


To be fair, Viviion is pretty good, will probably be a solid UU.


I thought so too, but after extensive testing I've realized it's speed is too sub-par to outperform anything and it's frail so you either have to run focus sash or choice scarf and heaven forbid something outspeed you naturally or you run into another scarfer and that's to make use of Sleep Powder as it's best move.

It's SA isn't anything to write home about either. It has Bug Buzz, Energy Ball and Hurricane as well as Quiver Dance but it needs QD to become a sweeper and then you don't get good coverage because why aren't you running sleep powder.


The best set is:

Vivillion @ Compound Eyes
Leftovers
Timid
252 SpAtk/ 252 Spd/ 4 HP (I'm sure you could debate about the speed EVs due to it's weird base speed, but for the sake of simplicity, I'll stick with this)
~Quiver Dance
~Sleep Powder
~Hurricane
~Sub

Nothing is immune to Hurricane and it has 30% Confusion rate on top of it. You come in on something slow, Sleep Powder, Sub, Buff, and sweep. It's REALLY good, give it a try.

Pair it with Sticky Web Galvantula for horrifyingly good results. (though that's true for any buffing sweeper XD)


It's still vulernable to SR, gets pretty nearly 1HKO'd by Choice Band Scizor, gets 1HKO'd by Volcarona

etc


1) So is Volcarona, you work around the weakness.

2) Don't send it in on faster pokemon.

3) You're comparing Vivillion (probably UU, tops) to Scizor and Volcarona (high-tier OU) because...?

Oh, and just for curiosity's sake...

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Vivillon: 243-289 (80.7 - 96%)

Unboosted TechSTABLO Bullet Punch fails to OHKO Vivillion. Scizor gets to eat a Sleep Powder.

+1 252 SpA Vivillon Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 250-295 (72.8 - 86%)

Vivillion boosts the following turn and hits with Hurricane the turn after. Even after LO recoil, there's no chance of a KO, but there's that 30% chance of confusion. So yeah, Scizor prooobably still wins, but also probably won't survive the ordeal due to a second turn of LO recoil.

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Vivillon: 280-331 (93 - 109.9%)

For CB Scizor it's about 50/50.
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#34Gameandwatch2Posted 11/24/2013 12:20:29 PM
I think they were fine as they were in gen 5.

Making another type that resists them was a totally stupid move.
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#35shadowenclave47Posted 11/24/2013 12:30:13 PM
Gameandwatch2 posted...
I think they were fine as they were in gen 5.

Making another type that resists them was a totally stupid move.


This
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#36naruko243Posted 11/24/2013 12:36:33 PM
I feel like Ice is the most deserving right now...
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#37LegoTechnicPosted 11/24/2013 12:39:28 PM
Ice really does have too many popular weaknesses. More often than not it's popular as a move for its coverage, and disliked as an actual type.

It was a little better when it was the only non-dragon type that was SE against Dragons, but Fairy is a lot better than it defensively so its niche has diminished further.
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#38paipr(Topic Creator)Posted 11/24/2013 1:01:06 PM
naruko243 posted...
I feel like Ice is the most deserving right now...


I do agree Ice needs some loving to. It would have been really nice if they had gone ahead and made Fairy weak to Ice and Ice resist Fairy (reasoning beyond 'because' I do not know).

Poison got a bit of love this gen with Fairy being weak to it, and it would have been great if they had thrown in the Water weak to Poison.

When it comes down to it though Bug is the only one of these three types where it seems to be consistently handed Pokemon with subpar stats, bad to worse typing (although no offense to the Aurous lovers but that typing is just terrible) all the while rarely getting Pokes that excel above the power houses.

That said Bug/Ice/Poison are kinda the tri-fecta of poorly used types that rarely see the love they so badly need. Grass is close behind, but unlike those three it sees a variety of love.
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.....said an almost 30 year old married guy driving a van part time for a living
fc:0602-6823-9646, SV:932,FS:electric. my wifes 0146.9112.0071
#39DyGenGuarPosted 11/24/2013 1:13:42 PM
paipr posted...
I do agree Ice needs some loving to. It would have been really nice if they had gone ahead and made Fairy weak to Ice and Ice resist Fairy (reasoning beyond 'because' I do not know).

I'm surprised Ice didn't get any buffs like this. The fact that it only resists 1 type and has a weakness to 4 other types always seemed a little absurd.
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#40paipr(Topic Creator)Posted 11/24/2013 1:16:05 PM
DyGenGuar posted...
paipr posted...
I do agree Ice needs some loving to. It would have been really nice if they had gone ahead and made Fairy weak to Ice and Ice resist Fairy (reasoning beyond 'because' I do not know).

I'm surprised Ice didn't get any buffs like this. The fact that it only resists 1 type and has a weakness to 4 other types always seemed a little absurd.


Im surprised as well. That and the fact that they did take away two of steels resistances. Its like if your gonna make some changes to the type chart beyond just adding something to balance look at a few other types.
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.....said an almost 30 year old married guy driving a van part time for a living
fc:0602-6823-9646, SV:932,FS:electric. my wifes 0146.9112.0071