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How would you feel if the type chart was revamped to look like this?

#31PurimPopoiePosted 12/28/2013 10:47:29 PM
Posting to say that Bug resists Fighting because a bug's exoskeleton acts like armor that deflects the blunt punches and kicks delivered by a martial artist. Monks aren't known for their armor piercing attacks, after all.

Or it could be referencing the whole "snatch the fly from my hand" trope from kung fu movies and how difficult it is.
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#32Lucidious89(Topic Creator)Posted 12/28/2013 10:59:52 PM
17Master posted...
Not sure I can handle Rock gaining both Electric and Ice resistance. Especially while still being so strong offensively (only Grass gains a Rock resistance, and Rock types aren't sticking around for something that could be packing a Grass move anyway). There's supposed to be a balance, it's weak defensively because it's so good offensively. Your changes kinda throw that out the window.


My thinking was that Game Freak designed Rock backwards.

You would think that Rock would be a great defensive type at first glance. And in fact, many Rock types are designed as if they would be great defensive Pokemon. The problem is that Rock is actually one of the WORST defensive types in the game. Steel almost seems like what Rock should've been from the start.

So, in order to try and make Rock less of a joke defensively, I gave it an Electric, Ice, and Bug resist, while making it resist itself as well as giving Grass a Rock resist in an effort to tone it down offensively. Maybe that's not enough, but I think Rock types as a whole tend to pack so many 4x weaknesses to common things that they still wouldnt be that great defensively even with all the buffs. And Grass types would become hard counters to many Rock types, now that they both hit for SE damage AND resist them.
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#33Lucidious89(Topic Creator)Posted 12/28/2013 11:15:26 PM
PurimPopoie posted...
Posting to say that Bug resists Fighting because a bug's exoskeleton acts like armor that deflects the blunt punches and kicks delivered by a martial artist. Monks aren't known for their armor piercing attacks, after all.

Or it could be referencing the whole "snatch the fly from my hand" trope from kung fu movies and how difficult it is.


I'm pretty sure a monk - hell, a toddler, could squash a but, exoskeleton and all.

I guess it makes more sense if you argue that the bugs in pokemon are scaled to human size, and thus their armor would be much more durable. But at that point you're just making assumptions to try and make the chart work. And if you're just going to start making assumptions as to how things work, then why couldn't I just assume that fighting types have strength so far beyond human capacity that they could easily punch holes right through a Bug's exoskeleton? Hell, if Fighting types can punch holes through Steel and solid Rock, then a Bug's exoskeleton shouldn't even be an issue.

Basically what I'm saying is - the type chart is pretty goofy, so don't take it too seriously.
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#34PentaoPosted 12/28/2013 11:16:12 PM
Lucidious89 posted...

Normal
SE against Fairy Nay.
Resistant to Fairy Yay.
Weak to Dark Nay.

Fire
Resistant to Dragon Yay.
No longer resists Fairy Nay.

Water
Weak to Poison Yay.
Resisted by Ice Yay.

Grass
Resistant to Rock Yay.
Resistant to Fairy Nay.

Electric
Resisted by Rock Nay. Big Nay.

Ice
Resistant to Water Yay.
Resistant to Ground Yay.
Resisted by Rock Nay.

Fighting
Weak to Poison Nay.

Poison
SE against Fighting Nay.
SE against Water Yay.

Ground
Resisted by Ice Yay.

Flying
Nothing

Psychic
Nothing Nay.

Bug
Resistant to Ghost Nay.
Resistant to Dark Nay.
No longer resisted by Fairy Yay.
No longer resisted by Ghost Yay.
Resisted by Rock

Rock
Resistant to Ice Nay.
Resistant to Electric Nay.
Resistant to Bug
Resisted by Grass
Resisted by Rock Nay.

Ghost
Weak to Fairy Yay.
Resisted by Bug Nay.
Resisted by Fairy Yay.

Dragon
Resisted by Fire Yay.

Dark
SE against Normal Nay.
Resisted by Bug Yay.

Steel
Nothing Nay.

Fairy
SE against Ghost
Resists Ghost
Weak to Normal
Resisted by Normal
Resisted by Grass
No longer resists Bug
No longer resisted by Fire


Overall, I see the attempts in buffing rock and ice as defensive types but rock was already plenty good offensively and actually pulls off the "glass cannon" offensive typing well while having meaningful resistances to fire and flying already. There is no reason to arbitrarily nerf electric when it's already an extremely neutral type (Thundurus I is the only real thing that needed to get nerfed anyway), yet things Psychic (which is a pretty bad type) and steel (which is a very good type) are pretty much untouched.

Fairy got nerfed too hard, and while it's a good type, it didn't need those nerfs. Fighting got nerfed this gen with the introduction of fairy types, and we're already seeing a lower prevalence of fighting moves in the metagame (thanks to things like Aegislash, Azumarill, Togekiss, and even Talonflame). There was no need to give them an additional weakness to poison.

I still don't get why psychic was untouched. Even as things are now, psychic types that are dual typed tend to forgo their secondary psychic STAB if they can. It's only real use is STAB Psyshock. It's not even a good defensive type. It's not the worst typing, but it is a very mediocre one.
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#35PurimPopoiePosted 12/28/2013 11:29:55 PM
Lucidious89 posted...
I'm pretty sure a monk - hell, a toddler, could squash a but, exoskeleton and all.

I guess it makes more sense if you argue that the bugs in pokemon are scaled to human size, and thus their armor would be much more durable. But at that point you're just making assumptions to try and make the chart work. And if you're just going to start making assumptions as to how things work, then why couldn't I just assume that fighting types have strength so far beyond human capacity that they could easily punch holes right through a Bug's exoskeleton? Hell, if Fighting types can punch holes through Steel and solid Rock, then a Bug's exoskeleton shouldn't even be an issue.

Basically what I'm saying is - the type chart is pretty goofy, so don't take it too seriously.


The importance was the word I used: deflects. Not absorbs or blocks. The energy from a Power-Up Punch doesn't get absorbed by the Bug's exoskeleton, or halted. It, effectively, goes around. Think of it like putting blocks of various shapes against a flow of water. A flat-edged block (a square) might get pushed back by a rushing stream, but a pointed shape cuts through the water, bending it around itself, cutting through it. That's how a bug's exoskeleton works. It's rounded in such a way that you can't "punch" it straight on, your fist ends up glancing it, going one way or another.

With this line of thinking, it becomes more obvious why Steel and Rock are weak to Fighting: They don't deflect the force, they attempt to absorb it or block it. And the brittle rock shatters and the rigid steel bends.

And I agree that it's goofy, and I didn't mean to seem serious. Trying to think of the logic behind the chart is kind of a fun mental exercise. I'm not taking it seriously in the slightest. It is, after all, just a game, right?
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#36Lucidious89(Topic Creator)Posted 12/28/2013 11:42:26 PM
Pentao posted...
Overall, I see the attempts in buffing rock and ice as defensive types but rock was already plenty good offensively and actually pulls off the "glass cannon" offensive typing well while having meaningful resistances to fire and flying already. There is no reason to arbitrarily nerf electric when it's already an extremely neutral type (Thundurus I is the only real thing that needed to get nerfed anyway), yet things Psychic (which is a pretty bad type) and steel (which is a very good type) are pretty much untouched.

Fairy got nerfed too hard, and while it's a good type, it didn't need those nerfs. Fighting got nerfed this gen with the introduction of fairy types, and we're already seeing a lower prevalence of fighting moves in the metagame (thanks to things like Aegislash, Azumarill, Togekiss, and even Talonflame). There was no need to give them an additional weakness to poison.

I still don't get why psychic was untouched. Even as things are now, psychic types that are dual typed tend to forgo their secondary psychic STAB if they can. It's only real use is STAB Psyshock. It's not even a good defensive type. It's not the worst typing, but it is a very mediocre one.


I never really liked how Rock became a glass cannon type, since it seems like it should be a built as a defensive type. Basically Steel's less durable cousin. So i gave it some resistances, and gave Grass a resistance to it so I could both buff Grass defensively and nerf Rock offensively at the same time. It's still never going to be a great defensive type due to those weaknesses, but I thought it would enjoy some new resistances.

Psychic types went untouched honestly because I didn't see any way to alter them offensively that would make any sense. The best thing I could think of was being SE against Ghost, but I felt like I was already over-nerfing Ghost.

I felt that Steel didn't need to be touched because Gen VI already did what I would've done. Losing its resistances to Dark and Ghost was what I would've probably done if it wasn't already done for me. The only thing I might've added was making Fighting resistant to it, to nerf it offensively (making Bullet Punch less spamable), and push it into more of a defensive role as it's meant to be.
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#37ShadowUmbreon42Posted 12/29/2013 6:07:07 AM
Lucidious89 posted...
ShadowUmbreon42 posted...
Lucidious89 posted...
Any particular reason why? A particular type becoming overpowered, or underpowered? Or just simply reluctance to change anything because you're used to the current chart?


None of it makes since.

If you hit an ice block hard enough with a rock it's going to crack. Do it more and it breaks, there is no reason that ice should resist rock.


Ice doesn't resist Rock, you must've misread. It's the other way around - Rock resists Ice.


Oh yeah you're right.

Maybe i should read through this again
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