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Are Japanese and Korean players really that strong?

#41TheEvilCubiPosted 12/29/2013 8:06:47 AM
Well the problem is the Smogon Metagame is very very centralized. When you play it for a while you realize its not as fun as the real game. Meanwhile the real metagame is far more broad and you have to account for more strategies.

Evasion somewhat counters OHKO. But OHKO is usually used against stall. People are right, English players suck because they limit themselves.
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#42JudgmenlPosted 12/29/2013 8:10:37 AM
TheEvilCubi posted...
Well the problem is the Smogon Metagame is very very centralized. When you play it for a while you realize its not as fun as the real game. Meanwhile the real metagame is far more broad and you have to account for more strategies.

Evasion somewhat counters OHKO. But OHKO is usually used against stall. People are right, English players suck because they limit themselves.


I've been saying this for years.
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#43CountPopeulaPosted 12/29/2013 8:12:23 AM
Alphanumeric posted...
^Yeah, but wouldn't you be much better off trying to switch to something that can either force the stall mon out or set up with something that doesn't mind being walled by a leach seed/burn/toxic mon? Who's to say you won't faint from residual damage before you even land that hit. By the time you land that hit, your mon would most likely be crippled and sacked anyway. Besides, most sweepers want all four moves; a lot of them already have 4MSS pretty badly. It may have relevancy in a 6v6 no rules setting, but I can't possibly imagine it being any other than a "pray i get lucky" type gimmick that lacks consistency.


This is all theoretical. But OHKOs are much better than evasion. Don't let the low hit chance fool you. It's not a pray ingest lucky move, it's a "is this statistically the best move I have in this particular situation" move, and sometimes it is.

I'm not saying the top players are getting there by using OHKOs, either, by the by. I'm just saying they play in a metagame where it's a thing, so when it comes up, they can do more than throw their hands in the air and yell cheap.

Although, frankly, OHKOs are a case where their mere existence shuts down an entire playstyle, so it's hard to argue that they're always a poor choice.
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I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it. - Voltaire
#44CountPopeulaPosted 12/29/2013 8:20:14 AM
Judgmenl posted...
TheEvilCubi posted...
Well the problem is the Smogon Metagame is very very centralized. When you play it for a while you realize its not as fun as the real game. Meanwhile the real metagame is far more broad and you have to account for more strategies.

Evasion somewhat counters OHKO. But OHKO is usually used against stall. People are right, English players suck because they limit themselves.


I've been saying this for years.


I had to be corrected on this a few weeks ago myself, and it's a testament to just how much OHKOs and evasion are blocked out by Americans. Evasion doesn't effect OHKO moves. You're just as likely to hit with Sheer Cold or any other OHKO on a pokemon with six stages of evasion as you are on one with 0 evasion.

But the Americans getting together and saying "X, Y and Z are banned" certainly don't help them get better. Because one of two things happen. X Y and Z are optimal choices and therefore we should be using them, or X Y and Z are sub-optimal but we have no way to deal with them when we come across them.
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I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it. - Voltaire
#45Godly_GoofPosted 12/29/2013 8:20:52 AM
CountPopeula posted...
Alphanumeric posted...
^Yeah, but wouldn't you be much better off trying to switch to something that can either force the stall mon out or set up with something that doesn't mind being walled by a leach seed/burn/toxic mon? Who's to say you won't faint from residual damage before you even land that hit. By the time you land that hit, your mon would most likely be crippled and sacked anyway. Besides, most sweepers want all four moves; a lot of them already have 4MSS pretty badly. It may have relevancy in a 6v6 no rules setting, but I can't possibly imagine it being any other than a "pray i get lucky" type gimmick that lacks consistency.


This is all theoretical. But OHKOs are much better than evasion. Don't let the low hit chance fool you. It's not a pray ingest lucky move, it's a "is this statistically the best move I have in this particular situation" move, and sometimes it is.

I'm not saying the top players are getting there by using OHKOs, either, by the by. I'm just saying they play in a metagame where it's a thing, so when it comes up, they can do more than throw their hands in the air and yell cheap.

Although, frankly, OHKOs are a case where their mere existence shuts down an entire playstyle, so it's hard to argue that they're always a poor choice.


I just run a sturdy pokemon and laugh at their OHKO moves lol.
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#46RandomNinjasPosted 12/29/2013 8:22:32 AM
They kill off everyone else.
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#47GShadowBrokerPosted 12/29/2013 8:28:54 AM
I couldn't care less for ranking battles. I don't like to be limited to 3 pokemon, it ends up making the game too luck reliant. Many american players will agree with me. I have much more fun with 6v6.
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#48CountPopeulaPosted 12/29/2013 8:29:32 AM
Godly_Goof posted...
CountPopeula posted...
Alphanumeric posted...
^Yeah, but wouldn't you be much better off trying to switch to something that can either force the stall mon out or set up with something that doesn't mind being walled by a leach seed/burn/toxic mon? Who's to say you won't faint from residual damage before you even land that hit. By the time you land that hit, your mon would most likely be crippled and sacked anyway. Besides, most sweepers want all four moves; a lot of them already have 4MSS pretty badly. It may have relevancy in a 6v6 no rules setting, but I can't possibly imagine it being any other than a "pray i get lucky" type gimmick that lacks consistency.


This is all theoretical. But OHKOs are much better than evasion. Don't let the low hit chance fool you. It's not a pray ingest lucky move, it's a "is this statistically the best move I have in this particular situation" move, and sometimes it is.

I'm not saying the top players are getting there by using OHKOs, either, by the by. I'm just saying they play in a metagame where it's a thing, so when it comes up, they can do more than throw their hands in the air and yell cheap.

Although, frankly, OHKOs are a case where their mere existence shuts down an entire playstyle, so it's hard to argue that they're always a poor choice.


I just run a sturdy pokemon and laugh at their OHKO moves lol.


Which is part of the strategy of the game. But there are three pokemon that have access to Mold Breaker and OHKO moves. Skarmory is also flying, so it takes care of Excadrill, but Pinsir and Haxorus can have Mold Breaker and Guillotine. And there are no Sturdy Ghost-types, so everything is potentially hit by one of the four OHKOs.

That said, Sturdy is the best choice because Sheer Cold is by far the best OHKO move and there are no Mold Breakers with access to it.
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I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it. - Voltaire
#49Pulsar24Posted 12/29/2013 8:54:03 AM
GShadowBroker posted...
I couldn't care less for ranking battles. I don't like to be limited to 3 pokemon, it ends up making the game too luck reliant. Many american players will agree with me. I have much more fun with 6v6.


Agreed. After around 150 ranked singles battles, I've come to the conclusion that I hate the format. It's very Hyper Offense oriented, and one moment of hax can cost you a battle. Hax is acceptable when you have 5 other Pokemon to pick up the slack. When you only have 2 others, your opponent has a Garchomp waiting, and you just lost your Garchomp counter to that crit.
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#50HamiwifulPosted 12/29/2013 9:56:02 AM
Nope, best PKMN trainers are from the US and México.