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Why does the competitive community have such double standard with typing?

#21PentaoPosted 1/12/2014 6:46:23 PM
What necessity is there to change their language in saying "common attack type?"

It's exactly what it sounds like. An attack type you commonly see. Your idea that it's about coverage is strictly your own.

You'll see U-Turn used A LOT. Scizor runs it, Genesect runs it, and a lot of other Pokemon also run it for momentum (Talonflame can run it, Landorus' formes, Tornadus formes, Greninja, the list goes on). There's even a strategy that revolves around using it and Volt Switch.

You've also got a top level threat in Volcorona, whose main STAB outside of Fire Blast/Fiery Dance will be Bug Buzz.

Bullet Punch on Scizor is pretty much a staple on anything but the Defog Support Mega Scizor set. Scizor is one of the most overused Pokemon in the game, so naturally, you'll have to keep Steel as an attacking type in mind. Not only that, but this generation you've got other viable Steel moves in Mega Lucario's Flash Cannon/Bullet Punch, Excadrill's Iron Head, Aegislash's Flash Cannon OR Iron Head, and even things like the possibility of things like Heatran running Flash Cannon.

I mean even those things aside, Steel Types tend to make up a bulk of really good Pokemon in OU, and some of them run things like Gyro Ball (Ferrothorn) as well. Then you've got things like Jirachi and the falling out of favor Metagross.
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#22Mewtwo_soulPosted 1/12/2014 6:52:03 PM(edited)
Pentao posted...
What necessity is there to change their language in saying "common attack type?"

It's exactly what it sounds like. An attack type you commonly see. Your idea that it's about coverage is strictly your own.

You'll see U-Turn used A LOT. Scizor runs it, Genesect runs it, and a lot of other Pokemon also run it for momentum (Talonflame can run it, Landorus' formes, Tornadus formes, Greninja, the list goes on). There's even a strategy that revolves around using it and Volt Switch.

You've also got a top level threat in Volcorona, whose main STAB outside of Fire Blast/Fiery Dance will be Bug Buzz.

Bullet Punch on Scizor is pretty much a staple on anything but the Defog Support Mega Scizor set. Scizor is one of the most overused Pokemon in the game, so naturally, you'll have to keep Steel as an attacking type in mind. Not only that, but this generation you've got other viable Steel moves in Mega Lucario's Flash Cannon/Bullet Punch, Excadrill's Iron Head, Aegislash's Flash Cannon OR Iron Head, and even things like the possibility of things like Heatran running Flash Cannon.

I mean even those things aside, Steel Types tend to make up a bulk of really good Pokemon in OU, and some of them run things like Gyro Ball (Ferrothorn) as well. Then you've got things like Jirachi and the falling out of favor Metagross.


Heck even in lower tiers a lot of Pokémon run U-Turn even non-offensive threats (I ran it often on my Accelgor DG team)
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#23mistrfantasyPosted 1/12/2014 6:49:07 PM
iKhan88 posted...
omega bahumat posted...
iKhan88 posted...
Mewtwo_soul posted...
Not all people who are competitive agree on the same things.

Second: I think Fire Flying in general is not a good typing. (Though some Fire/Flyers are amazing: Ho-Oh obviously) but SR weakness, and having a weakness to 3 Common attacking types (Rock/Water and Ground with Mold Break/etc.) Isn't always a plus. Thank goodness most recent Fire/Flying Pokémon have had some great stats/move pool/mix reasons for doing so well.

Edit:

And on the Bug/STeel thing: U -turn is a great Bug-type attack move, but a majority of bugs suck offensively or in general is probably what they mean. Similar to base Charizard as a Fire/Flying type.


1. Mold Breaker doesn't affect Fire/Flying's ground immunity.

2. If that's what people mean, they need to refine their vocabulary to describe such things. Calling Bug or Steel a common attacking type implies that attacks of typing often used for coverage. Fighting and Ice are common attacking types. But outside of U-Turn and Bullet Punch, those Bug and Steel attacks are extremely rare, and low power at that. If someone wants to say something has a bad U-turn weakness, say it has a bad U-turn weakness, NOT that it's weak to a common attacking type. Being weak to one common low-powered move is a lot easier to deal with than being weak to common typing.


Scizor shows up in roughly 1 in every 10 games

that's pretty common for an attacking type to see


No, it's a common attack. Not a common attacking type. Steel coverage is not something that is incredibly important to have. You don't see the likes of Salamence running Iron Tail for all the coverage benefits it brings (In Gen 5 at least, Gen 6 it helps against fairies).


If you look @ it from a % of pokedex/attackdex POV, then Steel is not a very popular attacking type. If you look @ it from a % of games played POV, then Steel and Bug is ridiculously common simply because Bullet Punch and U-Turn are the most common moves in their respective utility categories. The only alternative to U-Turn is Volt Switch, which is found on basically nothing not electric.
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#24iKhan88(Topic Creator)Posted 1/12/2014 7:07:37 PM
Pentao posted...
What necessity is there to change their language in saying "common attack type?"

It's exactly what it sounds like. An attack type you commonly see. Your idea that it's about coverage is strictly your own.


Because it's much more useful in those cases to know the particular move used. Dealing with Bullet Punch and U-Turn is a lot more manageable than dealing with high power moves like Superpower, Close Combat, Fire Blast, Flamethrower, etc. Fire, Ice, Electric, Fighting, Ground, Rock, and Water (Gen 5)/Ghost(Gen 6) are often found on several pokemon on a team.

So saying that a major flaw of a pokemon is a weakness to one of those moves isn't really correct. It's certainly a flaw, but not a huge one like a fighting weakness is.
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#25MagikarpRulesPosted 1/12/2014 7:09:47 PM
Let's face it, competitive players use only a small fraction of all the damaging moves in existence, and that makes TC's argument somewhat moot in that regard.

Being weak to ground means 'it's weak to Earthquake'. I don't think there are other Ground type moves that get much use.
#26iKhan88(Topic Creator)Posted 1/12/2014 7:34:26 PM
MagikarpRules posted...
Let's face it, competitive players use only a small fraction of all the damaging moves in existence, and that makes TC's argument somewhat moot in that regard.

Being weak to ground means 'it's weak to Earthquake'. I don't think there are other Ground type moves that get much use.


Earth Power. Also, Earthquake is also often found on two or more pokemon per team, and has a whopping base 100 power.
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"People fear and hate what is not normal. They are scared of those that are different. Then the solution is for everyone to become the same"-Yggdrasil