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Competitive Pokemon Battling is basically Rock-Paper-Scissors... it's luck.

#61Pulsar24Posted 1/17/2014 8:29:36 AM
AnimeKid1089 posted...
...from what I can see with this game. It's nothing more than luck, grinding, and guessing (and I hate that there HAS to be a "best Pokémon" or a "best team". That's not competition, that's basically mindless fun without strategy. Let me go into more detail:

1.) Grinding: This would be worth it if Pokémon could survive battles for a longer than 5 seconds to a minute (if battles themselves lasted longer than even 5 minutes on a daily basis). But no, you go through hours upon hours of putting the right EVs, IVs, moves, team combinations, leveling up, and items. And what do you get in the end? One-shot kills from an opposing Pokémon regardless. You spend hours building your Pokémon from the ground up to do a battle that lasts for more than a 20th of the time.

2.) Luck: The way you win is mostly through prediction (or guessing), bluffing, and the best Pokémon. And what's worse, is that this new Mega Evolution feature has no penalty at all. You basically have no reason to not use it other than that it's overpowered and want to prove your worth. But even then all you really need to win is the best moves, the best Pokémon, and the best EV placement, and you're golden (if you can also have the Psychic ability to figure out what the opponent will do than spam the same moves for one-hit kills). Faster Pokémon also do better, period (and that's all Speed is good for; going first. Whoope dee doo).

3.) Guessing: Like I said, it's nothing more than prediction.

I'm done with Pokémon. It's not fun to work in a video game, and it's not especially fun that all your hard work only applies to battles that last for such a short time. I think I'll play a real strategic competitive game, like... StarCraft.


1) Play a simulator. Problem solved.

2) In 3v3 Battle Spot singles, I agree that luck is a defining factor that costs you entire games; even if managed judiciously, it can still screw you over when you only have 3 Pokemon available to counter every Pokemon in the game (it's part of the reason it's so terrible a format). In 6v6 singles, unless you get fully paralyzed 7-8 times in one 20 turn match, you have no excuse. 6v6 singles is a format that has plenty of room for comebacks, provided you play well, strategize, and predict. Which brings me to my response to your third point...

3) Prediction is a skill. It's not just guessing; it's taking into account a number of factors like the composition of your opponent's team, potential movesets/items, and reacting accordingly. If your opponent carries Rotom-W + Genesect, for example, you know that they're probably going to be spamming VoltTurn and you make sure you keep your VoltTurn counter alive. Different teams can cause you to value different Pokemon more in said battle, and when you're playing competitively, you need to gauge which Pokemon that you have are the most threatening to your opponent's team and keep them alive at all costs. At the same time, you need to scout your opponent's strategies and sets, identify which threats are most dangerous to your team, and eliminate them as quickly as possible. Strategize. The fact that you're saying it's only prediction means you aren't thinking about the big picture, which is that victories against good opponents require a good analysis of their team from a glance and a general game plan that identifies key Pokemon in your strategy.

Team building is also a skill. You can't just expect to copy/paste the Smogon movesets for the top 6 Pokemon, call it a day, and expect to win all the time. Team building on a competitive level requires a strong knowledge of the metagame and the ability to choose Pokemon that exhibit good synergy with each other. You're running a physical sweeper? Look for what counters that sweeper and put that on your team, or look for something that can punch holes for your sweeper to exploit. It's up to you to identify these synergies.
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Oh no, not again.
#62GiftedACIIIPosted 1/17/2014 9:37:18 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#63AnimeKid1089(Topic Creator)Posted 1/18/2014 12:04:26 AM
Genericgamer667 posted...
in other words you don't have any actual counterargument


I don't need a "counterargument" if I already came up with one that you yourself can't counter in the first place, which was... hm... my original comment.
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I am not a kid, nor a huge fan of anime, so don't ask.
#64AnimeKid1089(Topic Creator)Posted 1/18/2014 12:05:09 AM
Habefiet posted...
Stop feeding him


You're not helping pretending that I'm trolling.
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I am not a kid, nor a huge fan of anime, so don't ask.
#65AnimeKid1089(Topic Creator)Posted 1/18/2014 12:07:36 AM
Lady-Lucy posted...
TC is just choosing to ignore every post and claiming that there are no valid points, even though a lot where brought up, TC is just bad and mad.

Prediction is a part of every competitive environment, even Tic-Tac-Toe requires prediction.

If you hate prediction so much TC, don't play anything competitive at all, simple as that.

As for Luck, yes, there are critical hits, I'll give you that, but Accuracy is not part of luck, if you use a move with less than 100% Accuracy you bet it'll miss eventually, and if it happens, it's your fault and not luck.


...are you kidding me? How is it my fault that a 100% accurate move misses (besides trying to hit a target that is immune to the type of attack)? And if prediction is the cornerstone of competition, then NO ONE is skilled at all.
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I am not a kid, nor a huge fan of anime, so don't ask.
#66waterdeepchuPosted 1/18/2014 12:10:17 AM
Have fun!
#67AnimeKid1089(Topic Creator)Posted 1/18/2014 12:15:02 AM
neb555 posted...
1. Grinding is a part of the game, there's no denying that. But what part of life doesn't reward those who put more time into training? Athletes, chess players, and salesmen all spend hours, days, years training, all for something (a game, a match, a sales pitch) that lasts much shorter than that.
Except, if you don't want the time investment, you don't have to! There are plenty of simulators that let you create Pokemon instantly and start battling right away. It's a question of which medium you prefer.

2. While luck is a factor, it's not as much as you make it out to be. With 6 vs 6, you have enough space to plan your team around various threats and let the best man win.
Your issues with fast Pokemon and Mega-evolutions are inaccurate. Most fast Pokemon trade either speed or power (or both) for their speed - that's why the metagame isn't made of Ninjask and Accelgor. As for Mega-evolutions, while they have some advantages, there are enough that you can pick the one you like the most, or still manage without one.

3. Guessing and prediction are two entirely different things. Guessing is when you have no clue what's going to happen and rely on random chance to work in your favor. Prediction is based around educated guesses, prior knowledge, and observations. You don't have to like a game based around knowledge and prediction, but you can't ignore the presence of it.


It's not rewarding enough to me. It's not fun enough to go on. I feel like I'm just making mindless soldiers do one-time short battles.

My issue with Mega Evolution is NOT inaccurate. There actually is no disadvantage to using it. Why would that be a good thing? You can only benefit from it, and never regret the move later on.

That's fair enough, I suppose. But I'm not ignoring the aspect, I'm just not convinced that prediction is... skillful, I don't know.
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I am not a kid, nor a huge fan of anime, so don't ask.
#68BlueHarvestPOTWPosted 1/18/2014 1:19:40 AM
BlueHarvestPOTW posted...
If you think prediction is what makes you good at this game then you have no idea how it is played at a higher level.

Pokemon is all about minimizing prediction and stacking the odds in your favor... forcing your opponent in a position where no matter what they do, no matter how hard the RNG screws you over you still win because your planning is so great.

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http://www.serebiiforums.com/forumdisplay.php?210-POTW-Collaboration
#69AmesangPosted 1/18/2014 8:52:38 AM
Reading through this thread has given me the urge to start grinding in The Bard's Tale games again. Hell, I never did finish mapping out the sewers in the first one…
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"Help! Help! They've destroyed my cousin's brain!! Oh, my god! They've already milked you, haven't they?!!" -- Phoncible P. Bone
#70XIII_rocksPosted 1/18/2014 8:56:05 AM
Why did people fall for this? Bizarre
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Raytan did pretty well.