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Should IVs be removed for future games?

#221Soldier_0_CrossPosted 1/18/2014 1:18:49 AM
They wouldnt kill the franchise, thats ludicrous. I get the importance of making your pokemon different but unfortunatley for someone who wants to get into battling it is a very daunting task to think about all the hours you have to put in just to get a pokemon with the stats you want. If it was somehow easier itd help a lot.

I really want to have a good team I can play with online and want to get into the strategy behind that. But how am I supposed to pick a team I think can work and play with when it will take me 5-10 hours just to get a pokemon towards that usable level.
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#222kenneticPosted 1/18/2014 1:25:21 AM
I don't think they need to be removed, just reworked.

Considering how easy breeding is now, passing along perfect IV are easy.

The best way to rework it would be to have all wild pokemon have 2 or 3 guaranteed perfect stats like the safari. I kind of enjoy the breeding puzzle afterwards.

The main issue I have is playing bike simulator... But that's another story.
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#223kagenoronin87Posted 1/18/2014 1:26:53 AM
kennetic posted...
I don't think they need to be removed, just reworked.

Considering how easy breeding is now, passing along perfect IV are easy.

The best way to rework it would be to have all wild pokemon have 2 or 3 guaranteed perfect stats like the safari. I kind of enjoy the breeding puzzle afterwards.

The main issue I have is playing bike simulator... But that's another story.


I'd be okay with that actually
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#224kenneticPosted 1/18/2014 1:46:51 AM
kagenoronin87 posted...
kennetic posted...
I don't think they need to be removed, just reworked.

Considering how easy breeding is now, passing along perfect IV are easy.

The best way to rework it would be to have all wild pokemon have 2 or 3 guaranteed perfect stats like the safari. I kind of enjoy the breeding puzzle afterwards.

The main issue I have is playing bike simulator... But that's another story.


I'd be okay with that actually


Thanks

As an expansion, I would propose that nature's affect which iv are perfect. Like if it's adamant, it never has special attack so the 2 or 3 random ones are always good.
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#225LaManoNeraIIPosted 1/18/2014 1:50:26 AM
mcelv52a posted...
terrible idea implemented in a terrible way, that takes up the most time and isn't fun in any aspect.


Really can't put it any better than that
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#226ZeldaTPLinkPosted 1/18/2014 6:13:25 AM(edited)
kagenoronin87 posted...
All I'm saying is taking IVs out promotes laziness, and the breeding mechanics are so streamlined it's not even hard for anyone to make a good team in a matter hours, I just don't see the need to complain about something you don't even have to participate in, if you don't want to breed for IVs than don't, but don't expect to win games agaisnt people who invest just a little more time into their Pokemon than you did. Yes I know it's a game and if that's what your saying play it like it is. If IVs aren't that important to you than you don't need them right, let the people who want to use them use them. No need to take the fun away from people who want to invest more time in their hobby then you is there?


I had to reply this one because it's pretty damn stupid.

If taking away IVs is going to promote anything, is people playing the actual game instead of spending hours upon hours doing nothing while waiting for eggs to hatch. They would play actual battles, test more different teams, and practice the battle system. That would improve the battle system, since there would be more time for people to practice it. And it would also raise the number of people interested in the competitive scene, which would also improve it.

Hatching eggs for 12 hours before a battle does not make you better in games. If anything, it makes you worse, since it makes you play less battles. People should be rewarded for investing time in the game, if such time is actually related with the game they are playing. Just like in every other sport, where you need to spend time training the actual game, not grinding for sports equipment.

Players should be rewarded for spending time practicing the actual game, not doing a mindless chore. After all, competitive pokemon is about the battles, about the team building, about the strategy... these are the activities we should spend our time doing when we play.

And by team building, I mean actually testing different moves and thinking about strategies. Without having to spend hours breeding every time we want to make a minor change to our strategy.
#227shadowreaper7Posted 1/18/2014 6:39:21 AM
IV's should be removed because:
I don't want to have to cycle back and forth and pray the RNG likes me and gives me what i want.
There is no skill or knowledge involved, only luck.
They are useless because only 4 of 32 possibilities are used. 31,30,1,0

Solutions:
IV's should be removed - This would be quite fool hardy and would cause more problems for the balance of the competitive environment everyone so desperately wants to take part in.

IV's should be reworked - A much better suggestion, though finding a way for this to work effectively without altering the maximum stats of every pokemon in existance (all 718 of them) would be alot of work.

_____________

The thing is, why do you want to remove Genetics? This is exactly what genetics is, random chance influenced to an extent by the environment (which i'll call the RNG) and the parents genes.

I don't want to be "that guy" but genetics in real life is precisely the reason why some people are good at sport, and some people aren't. There is outside influence and training (EV's) but that can only do so much. If you've got a gene which isn't expressed, due to it not being passed in pokemon terms (in real life it could simply be recessive and the dominant one is expressed). You're parents might be short. And you might be short too. You could be under 5ft. You'd be hard pushed to play competitive basketball.
You could also pass genes responsible for genetic disorders resulting in any number of "faults" - which i can use for a competition analogy. Colour blindness and Haemophilia for example are genetic faults which means they don't "play as well" as a person without it.

The best work around is to try and rework genetics as simply as using 0 or 1.
This still causes the problems of all base stats being reduced by 29 points, and if it is as so often suggested, the EV values increase to account for the loss. You'd need an additional 696 EV points to put all the stats back to what they were. But then you have the problem of you can't actively cap them out. Because the cap would have to increase to 368. (effectively 252 EV's and 31 IV's)
Making the EV cap total now at 1206.
But then what you can do, is put 368 in sp.atk and spd (for a sweeper, and then put the remaining points (470 -> so 368 + 102) into HP and a defense to max out 3 stats instead of 2.
With the 2 stats being at the lowest point. But with 3 maxed, and 1 with 25 points invested.
You can see where i'm going with this.
You could always alter the EV system to only do 2 stats + 4 points but again its problematic.
So this would be 740 exactly (as i wouldn't bother with making it 742 the 2 isn't use why continue it for traditions sake).
However then you have 2 stats maxed + 1 stat with an additional point (but without 31 Iv's its 30 points lower than what it could have been at all times) with the remaining 3 stats being 31 points lower at all possible times and without investment its always on the minimum value.

But i don't think many of you see the issues with this on how badly it influences the overall game mathematics and what it would change.
I think the only pokemon that stays the same is Shedinja (because its only 2 stats - attack and speed).

Seriously, the best method is to rework the system entirely, including the base stats and how they're calculated.

Currently it uses this formula:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:HPStatCalcGen34.png for HP
and this one:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:OtherStatCalcGen34.png for nature.

If anyone could gladly work out a new system whilst i'm away using 0 or 1 for IV's and allowing none of the stats to change.
Be my guest.
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#228LightEmperorPosted 1/18/2014 7:14:25 AM
I never understand why some people continue to defend the IV system.

1) It makes each Pokemon unique and adds individuality.
-Yeah so what if their assigned numbers are different? Why does this even matter? If each instance of a Pokemon were to be unique then there wouldn't even be base stats.

2) Those who want it removed are just lazy. People who put in more time should be rewarded more.
-Do you guys really enjoy biking back and forth that much? People who want it removed are not lazy. They want to play Pokemon, as in battilng, not bike simulator. Yes people who put in more time should be rewarded more. The putting in more time should be in the form of EV training and leveling up, not biking back and forth.

3) Hidden Power will get messed up.
-That's I can agree on, though there should be other ways to determine Hidden Power. Basically other ways to implement it.

Doesn't it feel wrong that you keep throwing out Pokemon that aren't perfect IVs? It completely goes against the values of putting love and hard work to your Pokemon to bring out the best in it. Yes I know that comes in the form of EV training and leveling up but IVs ruin it because no matter how much love and hard work you put in a Pokemon with 0 IVs across the board, the one with 31 IVs across the board that got the same amount of EV training and leveling up is always going to win. In other words, what is holding you back is not your lack of hard work but the traits that you were born with.
#229LightEmperorPosted 1/18/2014 7:19:39 AM
ZeldaTPLink posted...

I had to reply this one because it's pretty damn stupid.

If taking away IVs is going to promote anything, is people playing the actual game instead of spending hours upon hours doing nothing while waiting for eggs to hatch. They would play actual battles, test more different teams, and practice the battle system. That would improve the battle system, since there would be more time for people to practice it. And it would also raise the number of people interested in the competitive scene, which would also improve it.

Hatching eggs for 12 hours before a battle does not make you better in games. If anything, it makes you worse, since it makes you play less battles. People should be rewarded for investing time in the game, if such time is actually related with the game they are playing. Just like in every other sport, where you need to spend time training the actual game, not grinding for sports equipment.

Players should be rewarded for spending time practicing the actual game, not doing a mindless chore. After all, competitive pokemon is about the battles, about the team building, about the strategy... these are the activities we should spend our time doing when we play.

And by team building, I mean actually testing different moves and thinking about strategies. Without having to spend hours breeding every time we want to make a minor change to our strategy.


I totally agree. I like spending more time playing than game rather than PREPARING to play the game.
#230InMooseWeTrustPosted 1/18/2014 8:52:35 AM
LouELastic posted...
kagenoronin87 posted...
LouELastic posted...


Smh...the original question on this thread is "should IVs be removed in future games?" You are not answering my question at all. And consumers who BUY THE GAMES certainly have control. It's simply a matter of voicing your opinion and providing logical feedback for your claims.

IVs have outstayed their welcome for these reasons:

1. EVs, natures, and abilities provide enough variability as it is.
2. ANY competitive battler will have HP, Def, and SpD IVs maxed. Unless the poke uses trick room, speed is always maxed. Other than that, it's a simple thought process of "is my poke a physical or special attacker?" Taking this into account, why even have IVs when you could just remove them and expand EVs? They can be increased not through the luck of the draw, but by TRAINING.
3. Hidden Power could easily be taught to Pokes without having to take IVs into consideration. That's such a simple change, it's laughable.
4. In light of how pointless they are, why should someone have to spend so much time IV breeding AND EV training?

Now instead of your same boring argument, why don't you come up with some sort of rebuttal to these points.

Right and all those are good reasons, but not enough to see them gone unless you say to Nintendo and Game Freak that they are in masses and if they decide to listen to you assuming you represent a good majority of their consumer base. Sure they might listen to you, but they could also not care, unless a good chunk of you decide to stop buying there games all at once. Ask yourself would you not buy the Gen VII games if they didn't get rid of IVs, if your answer is yes then good you made your point to the company if not, well then you haven't made your point. You could sign a petition, you can stomp, and whine all you want, but ultimately it's the company's decision you can either take it or leave it



With well over 200 posts on this thread and not one single post displaying a strong argument as to why IVs should stay, maybe it would be a good idea to start a petition. Based on what I've experienced from the gameplay and input from numerous players, removing/changing IV breeding could result in an increase in units for the older demographic that is more into competitive battling. GameFreak would be wise to look into it.


1. Nintendo and GameFreak don't care about Petitions. For example, look at the official Mother 3 translation that got released because of all the petitions. Oh wait...
2. I want a petition for Pokémon Bank.
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