This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

I'm surprised that Giratina-A isn't OU

#11CakeOfLiesPosted 3/31/2014 5:06:23 PM
itachi134 posted...
CakeOfLies posted...
Because Giratina-A is the second best mixed wall in the game.
What you're suggesting is almost as stupid as the thought of unbanning Lugia.


No, because Lugia is deceptively a sweeper. 110 Speed is way too gnarly on that thing, for OU anyways.


ITP: Walls don't use Speed ever.
---
I was once modded for illegal activity because I made a topic asking for advice on nicknaming my Pokemon.
3DS FC: 5043-2277-6391 - THIEF
#12itachi134(Topic Creator)Posted 3/31/2014 5:10:33 PM
Lugia's most frightening stat is Speed. You aren't a true competitive battler if you think otherwise or don't realize why that happens to be the case.

Sure, in Ubers, it is thrown under the rug, but Lugia as a whole is thrown under the rug in Ubers anyway. It still lets him Speed tie with Latis and move faster than relevant threats like Garchomp.

If Lugia was brought to OU, I guarantee you his Speed would be what breaks him. A CM set or some wildcard with Reflect and support moves with those defenses at 110 Speed and Multiscale is a real problem. He can just move before Terrakion and set up right in his face without fear.
---
If you're scared to die, then you're scared to live
#13MrFingers07Posted 3/31/2014 5:13:56 PM
Meh, I really do not want to see stall with that running around. I mean it can play around Bisharp with WoW or something.
---
:D Brawlin' Mains: R.O.B., Lucario, Pikachu, Wolf
#14GloryChaosPosted 3/31/2014 5:14:11 PM
FinalInsanity posted...
itachi134 posted...
No, because Lugia is deceptively a sweeper.


lol


He has a good point. Lugia is bulky enough to calm mind boost with no worries in OU. Ho-oh would be able to run a special set with calm mind if it were allowed into OU too. The uber Pokemon are restricted to specific roles in ubers because of how they all check each other. But if they were allowed into OU, they'd become far more versatile.

As for giratina, lol at countering a defensive Pokemon. Still though, wouldn't It be troublesome as a calm mind tank? I could see it pulling off a mono attacking CM set like how suicune currently does. I wouldn't rely on bisharp for him either since giratina would just run speed to outrun him and hit him with will-o-wisp.
---
Brawl FC - 1332 8069 6690
http://i.imgur.com/OZ9aS.png
#15Teh_TiltyuPosted 3/31/2014 5:16:36 PM
it's bulkier than arceus

what if gamefreak gave it roost
---
King of Fighters is objectively the best franchise.
"Mounted Emblem: Sigurdology of the Holsety War" - heavylobsterguy
#16Fault42Posted 3/31/2014 5:16:44 PM
itachi134 posted...
Lugia's most frightening stat is Speed. You aren't a true competitive battler if you think otherwise or don't realize why that happens to be the case.
Sure, in Ubers, it is thrown under the rug, but Lugia as a whole is thrown under the rug in Ubers anyway. It still lets him Speed tie with Latis and move faster than relevant threats like Garchomp.
If Lugia was brought to OU, I guarantee you his Speed would be what breaks him. A CM set or some wildcard with Reflect and support moves with those defenses at 110 Speed and Multiscale is a real problem. He can just move before Terrakion and set up right in his face without fear.

First of all, I want to point out the fallacy in your first sentence (being that you're ridiculing anyone who doesn't agree with you).
Your second sentence doesn't make too much sense... It restates itself in the beginning. It outspeeds the Lati twins, yes, but what do you want it to do? If we place Lugia in this imaginary OU state with Garchomp in the scenario you said, why would you want to keep Garchomp in? Unless you're SD'ing, I'd rather not let my scarfer / sweeper go against one of the most fearsome walls in the game. And yes, it is a wall.
And you contradict yourself in your third sentence, in which you mention that its defense is what actually allows it to set up in front of threats such as Terrakion. Yes, the speed lets you set up before most Pokemon, but if Lugia didn't have such ridiculous defenses, what stops it from getting destroyed by the proceeding Stone Edge?
---
I am.... Justice! /////// Top 50 on PS
3DS FC: 3754-7781-4361 (( Fire-type safari ~! Pansear, Larvesta, Braixen )) TSIV: 3212
#17itachi134(Topic Creator)Posted 3/31/2014 5:20:19 PM
MrFingers07 posted...
Meh, I really do not want to see stall with that running around. I mean it can play around Bisharp with WoW or something.


I feel like it would make the game a lot more interesting and balanced, though. You don't auto-lose for a simple mistake or critical hit, and Thundurus-i is a serious problem that requires me to use things like Quagsire to beat, which I really would rather not use at all.

Defense needs a buff like Giratina-A that also would not be broken. Since he's grounded, he also gets injured by Spikes which is easy to stack with Deoxys-D. His only reliable healing move is Rest, which either requires you to fully commit to it and be a Restalker or have a backup with Heal Bell/Aromatherapy, which is not always going to be ideal.
---
If you're scared to die, then you're scared to live
#18Fault42Posted 3/31/2014 5:27:08 PM
itachi134 posted...
I feel like it would make the game a lot more interesting and balanced, though. You don't auto-lose for a simple mistake or critical hit, and Thundurus-i is a serious problem that requires me to use things like Quagsire to beat, which I really would rather not use at all.

Defense needs a buff like Giratina-A that also would not be broken. Since he's grounded, he also gets injured by Spikes which is easy to stack with Deoxys-D. His only reliable healing move is Rest, which either requires you to fully commit to it and be a Restalker or have a backup with Heal Bell/Aromatherapy, which is not always going to be ideal.

In my opinion, you SHOULD lose for a mistake : p
And are you using Thundurus as an argument for releasing Giratina-A? That's not valid, that's just an argument to ban Thundurus.
Spikes isn't too much of an issue at the moment, with Defog running around and what not. Sure, there's Bisharp to get that +1, but if you're running Bisharp and Giratina-A on the same team, it sounds more like an offensive teams more than anything.
---
I am.... Justice! /////// Top 50 on PS
3DS FC: 3754-7781-4361 (( Fire-type safari ~! Pansear, Larvesta, Braixen )) TSIV: 3212
#19TropiOUsPosted 3/31/2014 5:27:56 PM
SorrySleeping posted...
It may be able to fit into OU, but then every team would run 1 or 2 Giratina-A counters, and thus it'd be banned again for being over centralizing.


nice buzzwords kiddo.
Overcentralizing has never been a reason to ban something since gen 4 Chomp
---
Yes, I'm that guy from Smogon. 80% of my posts are troll posts. I HATE DRUDDIGON
#20itachi134(Topic Creator)Posted 3/31/2014 5:28:49 PM
GloryChaos posted...
As for giratina, lol at countering a defensive Pokemon. Still though, wouldn't It be troublesome as a calm mind tank? I could see it pulling off a mono attacking CM set like how suicune currently does. I wouldn't rely on bisharp for him either since giratina would just run speed to outrun him and hit him with will-o-wisp.


I like your argument here because it shows how the metagame might change, and also shows pros and cons to it. Giratina would be a decent CM attacker, but his moveset suffers in that you need at least one attack, Calm Mind, and Rest. The last move is a filler, either another attack, Sleep Talk, or Will-O-Wisp possibly to cripple physical threats. As the set commits more to CM stacking, it becomes more susceptible to threats in the OU tier and vice versa.

Giratina-A needs hardly any Speed EVs to outrun an Adamant Bisharp, but if people start using Jolly Bisharp, Giratina-A would need to invest in more Speed, which handicaps it since you preferably want to start the battle with more defensive EVs. Jolly Bisharp would be another asset to the OU tier since Bisharp is currently a little to strong and would be less of a problem if he couldn't be Adamant.

Changes like these are healthy for the metagame, and also make you think.
---
If you're scared to die, then you're scared to live