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I'm surprised that Giratina-A isn't OU

#31itachi134(Topic Creator)Posted 3/31/2014 6:54:41 PM
Fault42 posted...
In my opinion, you SHOULD lose for a mistake : p
And are you using Thundurus as an argument for releasing Giratina-A? That's not valid, that's just an argument to ban Thundurus.
Spikes isn't too much of an issue at the moment, with Defog running around and what not. Sure, there's Bisharp to get that +1, but if you're running Bisharp and Giratina-A on the same team, it sounds more like an offensive teams more than anything.


Late reply, sorry. I only just noticed this post.

Losing for one mistake is not ideal. I can understand losing for multiple mistakes or for being outplayed by your opponent, but a slight error does not make the game competitive. Especially if that error happens to be a critical hit which you have no way control over and automatically lose the game in some instances if it happens to you. The game needs more "save me" strategies to bail you out of a tight predicament, because a lot of top tier teams just bombard you with aggressive strategies that cannot be defended against, meaning you have to join in and also play aggressive strategies or else you lose. The problem with that is that you become unprepared for other match ups like Baton Pass and random wildcard stuff like Stockpile Quagsire or something that you need something specific to beat.

Also, no, I am not using Thundurus-i as an argument for unbanning Giratina-A at all. I just brought up Thundurus-i because he would be the most affected by Giratina-A in OU.

I have no argument for Giratina-A being OU other than the fact that it would make the game more interesting to play. What was the argument people had for Kyurem being in OU at first? I don't think there was one, other than that he wouldn't be broken. I don't think Giratina-A would be broken in OU either.

Last point, I don't really think you caught on to what I meant. I said Giratina-A has problems with Spikes, and you somehow linked that to him being on the same team as Bisharp? I don't really see that correlation. If anything, Bisharp will be on the team that has Spikes, while Giratina-A will not.
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#32itachi134(Topic Creator)Posted 3/31/2014 7:00:17 PM(edited)
Fault42 posted...
Actually, Lugia would counter Terrakion still. An Adamant, Choice Band, fully invested Terrakion's Stone Edge is a 3HKO on a Bold 176 Def / 252 HP Lugia (assuming Leftovers), giving you plenty enough time to Roost, put up Reflect, or whatever you deem worthy of its time.
But, I think we're wasting our time here on Lugia, and here's why: from the way I'm seeing it, you're basically comparing Giratina-A to Lugia without the speed, correct? (If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.)
Again, I would like to point out Lugia's defenses, and why they are the main concern here, rather than the quick-stall aspect. While being able to go first is nice, but as mentioned before, Lugia is 3HKO'd by quite a strong Pokemon; that alone is why Lugia is a threat - it can use its bulk to set up, rather than its speed.


You have to account for Stealth Rock too, which will negate Multiscale and make you take full damage from Stone Edge. That calculation is an error, because Stone Edge is an OHKO on Lugia with Stealth Rock in play. Either way, with or without Speed, Lugia cannot safely switch in on a CB Terrakion Stone Edge. However, if you have the Speed, Lugia can come in on a free turn after a KO or a U-turn/Baton Pass/Volt Switch and Roost before Terrakion can Stone Edge, and then use moves like Reflect and such before being hit, which is what allows you to win against him. Without the Speed it doesn't work because you are forced to get hit, and you will not survive.

I also am not comparing Giratina-A to Lugia, and I had absolutely no intentions of talking about Lugia in this topic whatsoever. Some other guy claimed that Giratina-A in OU is akin to advocating Lugia in OU, and it most definitely is not because Lugia would be far more versatile and threatening in the OU tier.
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#33Fault42Posted 3/31/2014 7:00:59 PM
itachi134 posted...
I have no argument for Giratina-A being OU other than the fact that it would make the game more interesting to play. What was the argument people had for Kyurem being in OU at first? I don't think there was one, other than that he wouldn't be broken. I don't think Giratina-A would be broken in OU either.
Last point, I don't really think you caught on to what I meant. I said Giratina-A has problems with Spikes, and you somehow linked that to him being on the same team as Bisharp? I don't really see that correlation. If anything, Bisharp will be on the team that has Spikes, while Giratina-A will not.

I cannot argue against the first point, considering that "interesting" is very subjective, but I understand your point that you consider it not "broken." : p
Unfortunately, I cannot argue against that, unless you want to elaborate on what we would consider "broken" for the case of this argument.
I was saying that Spikes wasn't very relevant to the metagame at the moment due to Defog, and the only thing deterring Defog being Bisharp, which wouldn't be common on the same team as Giratina.
With that, I have to take my leave. It was a pleasure having a logical argument ~
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#34itachi134(Topic Creator)Posted 3/31/2014 7:05:16 PM
TropiOUs posted...
>lists togekiss
>not clefable
thanks for confirming you are bad. All your opinions are invalid.


I personally do not like Clefable at all. It doesn't do the Unaware thing as well as Quagsire and loses out on Magic Guard if it tries. I didn't mention him because he just slipped my mind though, so I suppose he is one of the usable Fairies. I could make arguments for Whimsicott too, but I don't really feel like it. I just wanted to mention the Fairy types who work in conventional ways and do not try to do their own thing to be unique.
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#35TropiOUsPosted 3/31/2014 7:06:01 PM
itachi134 posted...
TropiOUs posted...
>lists togekiss
>not clefable
thanks for confirming you are bad. All your opinions are invalid.


I personally do not like Clefable at all. It doesn't do the Unaware thing as well as Quagsire and loses out on Magic Guard if it tries. I didn't mention him because he just slipped my mind though, so I suppose he is one of the usable Fairies. I could make arguments for Whimsicott too, but I don't really feel like it. I just wanted to mention the Fairy types who work in conventional ways and do not try to do their own thing to be unique.


You just confirmed what i just said.
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#36itachi134(Topic Creator)Posted 3/31/2014 7:09:43 PM
TropiOUs posted...
itachi134 posted...
TropiOUs posted...
>lists togekiss
>not clefable
thanks for confirming you are bad. All your opinions are invalid.


I personally do not like Clefable at all. It doesn't do the Unaware thing as well as Quagsire and loses out on Magic Guard if it tries. I didn't mention him because he just slipped my mind though, so I suppose he is one of the usable Fairies. I could make arguments for Whimsicott too, but I don't really feel like it. I just wanted to mention the Fairy types who work in conventional ways and do not try to do their own thing to be unique.


You just confirmed what i just said.


What you first said is considered trolling, not an argument. I just felt like humoring you.
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