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What do you think of cloning, genning and powersaves?

#241choicespecPosted 7/14/2014 2:00:46 PM
Shinifying is great. It destroyed the market for shiny Pokemon on Ebay.
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Due to confusion the FC has been removed.
#242German_koffingPosted 7/14/2014 2:02:08 PM
ChapFromKrugis posted...
FireMage7777 posted...
You want one fact that overrides everything you have to say? Here it is. Cheating either directly or indirectly is wrong


I didn't think this needed to be said again, but lol morals in video games. Seriously Flashbang, get some new material or beat it.

Also, where are the Holocaust jokes? I was told this guy makes Holocaust jokes.


Really?
Where's cardoor I want to see his murder comparisons
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#243Inferno05Posted 7/14/2014 2:04:18 PM
German_koffing posted...
ChapFromKrugis posted...
FireMage7777 posted...
You want one fact that overrides everything you have to say? Here it is. Cheating either directly or indirectly is wrong


I didn't think this needed to be said again, but lol morals in video games. Seriously Flashbang, get some new material or beat it.

Also, where are the Holocaust jokes? I was told this guy makes Holocaust jokes.


Really?
Where's cardoor I want to see his murder comparisons


I kind of miss Pokemin's way of dodging all my questions, as well as his complete lack of understanding in the process of RNG manipulation. Good times, good times.
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Pokemon X 1676-4937-5079 IGN: Reaga SV: 1734
#244FireMage7777Posted 7/14/2014 4:31:45 PM
Inferno05 posted...
FireMage7777 posted...
You want one fact that overrides everything you have to say? Here it is. Cheating either directly or indirectly is wrong, and you are doing either by breeding/battling/playing with/etc anything but 100% legit Pokémon that have never in any way been the result of hacking, genning, etc no matter how many generations ago. There's a fact, get over it, and good day. You may leave now


I sense ruffled jimmies, as you have just tried to apply an opinion as fact.

Here's what just happened, let me sum it up:

I came at you with rules and definitions given by GF and TPCi. In other words, the authorities on this or any other Pokemon matter have rules that directly defy all but one of your views on cheating. The only thing you and they both view as cheating is direct modification.

In response to actual authoritative definitions, you came at me with subjective views. And yes, your view on this is subjective. Morals are entirely subjective, because they change from person to person. You cannot claim subjective statements to be "fact", it's a logical fallacy. The fact that there is even a debate on whether legal hacks are "fair" or not proves the whole thing is subjective, which is why it's never won: People apply subjective reasoning on both sides.

What we have here is a rare case where objectivity takes place in a hacking argument, as you have directly made claims that contradict actual facts that have been laid out before you.

Try again, good sir, and this time please make it a challenge.


Trying to make something that is objective appear to be subjective is a logical fallacy. All of what I have previously listed is cheating due to the very definition of cheating; regardless of what you, Nintendo, TPC, GF, etc have to say about it. And cheating by its very nature is wrong. There is no counterargument you can make to prove otherwise, class dismissed
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#245FireMage7777Posted 7/14/2014 4:33:23 PM
ChapFromKrugis posted...
FireMage7777 posted...
You want one fact that overrides everything you have to say? Here it is. Cheating either directly or indirectly is wrong


I didn't think this needed to be said again, but lol morals in video games. Seriously Flashbang, get some new material or beat it.

Also, where are the Holocaust jokes? I was told this guy makes Holocaust jokes.


I don't make Holocaust jokes. Your source is wrong
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I'm so awesome Gavirulax uses alts and forged PMs to try and troll me
Licensed troll slayer
#246FireMage7777Posted 7/14/2014 4:36:08 PM
LightningAce11 posted...
Since people probably used 6iv ditto to breed pokemon for vgc tournaments, and they weren't disqualified, what do you think of that?


If that 6IV Ditto is hacked then any Pokémon obtained through using it was obtained through cheating. I trust you know where I'm going with this
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I'm so awesome Gavirulax uses alts and forged PMs to try and troll me
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#247Inferno05Posted 7/14/2014 4:47:25 PM
FireMage7777 posted...
Inferno05 posted...
FireMage7777 posted...
You want one fact that overrides everything you have to say? Here it is. Cheating either directly or indirectly is wrong, and you are doing either by breeding/battling/playing with/etc anything but 100% legit Pokémon that have never in any way been the result of hacking, genning, etc no matter how many generations ago. There's a fact, get over it, and good day. You may leave now


I sense ruffled jimmies, as you have just tried to apply an opinion as fact.

Here's what just happened, let me sum it up:

I came at you with rules and definitions given by GF and TPCi. In other words, the authorities on this or any other Pokemon matter have rules that directly defy all but one of your views on cheating. The only thing you and they both view as cheating is direct modification.

In response to actual authoritative definitions, you came at me with subjective views. And yes, your view on this is subjective. Morals are entirely subjective, because they change from person to person. You cannot claim subjective statements to be "fact", it's a logical fallacy. The fact that there is even a debate on whether legal hacks are "fair" or not proves the whole thing is subjective, which is why it's never won: People apply subjective reasoning on both sides.

What we have here is a rare case where objectivity takes place in a hacking argument, as you have directly made claims that contradict actual facts that have been laid out before you.

Try again, good sir, and this time please make it a challenge.


Trying to make something that is objective appear to be subjective is a logical fallacy. All of what I have previously listed is cheating due to the very definition of cheating; regardless of what you, Nintendo, TPC, GF, etc have to say about it. And cheating by its very nature is wrong. There is no counterargument you can make to prove otherwise, class dismissed


You appear to be mistaken. What's subjective is the morality that says cheating is always wrong. Or ANY morality, really. Morality is not objective.

And the definition of cheating (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating) specifically states that identifying cheating is a subjective process. This is because what counts as cheating is subjective.

Since it's subjective, it can't be fact.

Let's go deeper and analyze why it's subjective by showing you why people would believe Pokegen isn't even cheating.

"Cheating is the getting of reward for ability by dishonest means or finding an easy way out of an unpleasant situation". Breeding is not reward for ability, because you do not need to be good at any part of the game to perform it. There is no "ability" to consider.

As for finding an easy way out of an unpleasant situation, it's not easy. To create legal hacks via Pokegen, every aspect of the Pokemon must be researched. Possible abilities, met location, met level, possible Pokeballs if you don't want the regular ball, OTs/IDs for events. All must be researched thoroughly when creating a new Pokemon hack from scratch. As for insertion, it's always either tedious or costly. I myself purchased an NDS Adapter Plus to avoid the one-at-a-time tedium of trade-inserting.

"It is generally used for the breaking of rules to gain unfair advantage in a competitive situation". There is no advantage to be gained, fair or unfair. Legal hacks are identical to the legit version, so there can be no advantage gained. If my hacked Arcanine faces your bred one with the same build, it's a mirror match.

I'll continue if you want in another post, student. I'm prepared
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Pokemon X 1676-4937-5079 IGN: Reaga SV: 1734
#248FireMage7777Posted 7/14/2014 5:08:45 PM
Except that cheating isn't a subjective issue. It is wrong, and obtaining something through an external method is cheating
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I'm so awesome Gavirulax uses alts and forged PMs to try and troll me
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#249WyndetalPosted 7/14/2014 5:16:17 PM
FireMage7777 posted...
Except that cheating isn't a subjective issue. It is wrong, and obtaining something through an external method is cheating


Personally I don't think it matters since everyone has done it, I bet even you probably have cheated. I mean for example, you probably read strategy guides to get an edge on a boss that you can't beat, that's technically cheating, no?
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#250Inferno05Posted 7/14/2014 5:17:08 PM
FireMage7777 posted...
Except that cheating isn't a subjective issue. It is wrong, and obtaining something through an external method is cheating


No, taking that something to a competition that expressly forbids it is cheating. But what you do with single player is up to you. It's subjective. And breeding is a single-player experience from the moment you put the Pokemon into the day-care and until you pick up the egg.
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Pokemon X 1676-4937-5079 IGN: Reaga SV: 1734