I tried defending this item distribution, but it really is terrible.

#11Roll_kix_azzPosted 6/10/2014 8:46:18 PM(edited)
The item distribution is crap. That and the items themselves like stars were nerfed, and there are VERY few shortcuts that actually help people catch up. That and blue shells were nerfed so once first gets ahead no one's catching them because they'll be too busy hitting each other with items while first gets further and further away with no fear of even a blue shell since they're so rare.

The first item box pretty much determines the race, which is ridiculous.
---
Remember: Roll is FTW, ppl who h8 her are FTL. This is a golden rule
Official PTS Sakura of the Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm Revolution board
#12super_luigi16(Moderator)Posted 6/10/2014 8:48:20 PM
Chagen46 posted...
That's a gigantic exaggeration. Yes, sometimes you get mushrooms in twelfth and Crazy 8's in second. It's happened to me before. But you generally still get powerful items in lower places. And in first you don't have to count down till a blue stabs you in the butt like with Wii.


"Generally" is stretching it. It is extremely common--it happens nearly every race I've been in to at least one racer--for one racer to get consistently screwed over in the back of the pack. In fact, item luck is even more of a determining factor in Mario Kart 8 than in Mario Kart Wii...

Chagen46 posted...
Wii had a "better item meta"? Good! I don't want items to be the main determining factor, I want track knowledge and good skill at turns to be the main determining factor. In 8 items HELP you, but you can't just coast on them like in Wii, playing like crap yet knowing you'll win because Item Jesus'll bless you with a lightning.


The thing is that lines don't matter in Mario Kart 8 once everyone discovers what the best lines are. It's only a matter of time until everyone has "good skills at [turning]" and "track knowledge." Everyone will eventually know the shortcuts and how to drift. What happens then? The game is broken because the ONLY thing determining the race is the minuscule amount of skill difference between one person who has good lines and another racer who has good lines and the items they receive. Furthermore, with item spy, Mario Kart 8 doesn't even let you exploit a bad situation because the item matchups are pointed out right on the GamePad--you know exactly how to play your items because you know exactly what everyone else's items are!

Chagen46 posted...
The fact that sandbagging was an actual tactic in Wii says a lot.


I would rather sandbagging exist. When it isn't a tactic, an entire dimension of skill is removed from the game.
---
Luigi > Mario
http://www.facebook.com/SLFAQS | Current - MK8 FAQ/Walkthrough - MGWT FAQ/Walkthrough
#13OverclockdPosted 6/10/2014 8:56:26 PM
Chagen46 posted...
That's a gigantic exaggeration. Yes, sometimes you get mushrooms in twelfth and Crazy 8's in second. It's happened to me before. But you generally still get powerful items in lower places. And in first you don't have to count down till a blue stabs you in the butt like with Wii.

Wii had a "better item meta"? Good! I don't want items to be the main determining factor, I want track knowledge and good skill at turns to be the main determining factor. In 8 items HELP you, but you can't just coast on them like in Wii, playing like crap yet knowing you'll win because Item Jesus'll bless you with a lightning.

The fact that sandbagging was an actual tactic in Wii says a lot.


Yes, that's the key word. There was actual tactic in MKW. Using items was a SKILL. I'm not sure why you feel that item skill is somehow inferior to driving skill, but I can't change your preferences. But I can say that Mario Kart 8 has less capacity for showing off skill. Just as much as items let bad players come back, it kept smart players in front. I'm not sure why you act like driving well is many times more important in MK8 than MKW. You couldn't race like crap and consistently win against good players no matter how lucky you were.

Mini, I never got a chance to thank you for the item guide. Reading that gave me a new appreciation of Mario Kart.
#14ExentrykPosted 6/10/2014 8:59:00 PM
MK8 online racing strat - Take lead as you begin the race, keep it after 1st item box spam, and most likely win the race.

8 is all about taking the lead after the first item box spam and then driving properly. That's it. Only things that'll get you after that are the blue shell and/or triple reds in 2nd. There is no way 2nd place is going to catch up as they have to fend off 3rd place attacks.

There is, however, Frantic mode as an alternative.
---
Veni, Vidi, Dormivi.
#15Chagen46Posted 6/10/2014 9:02:08 PM(edited)
super_luigi16 posted...

The thing is that lines don't matter in Mario Kart 8 once everyone discovers what the best lines are. It's only a matter of time until everyone has "good skills at [turning]" and "track knowledge." Everyone will eventually know the shortcuts and how to drift. What happens then? The game is broken because the ONLY thing determining the race is the minuscule amount of skill difference between one person who has good lines and another racer who has good lines and the items they receive. Furthermore, with item spy, Mario Kart 8 doesn't even let you exploit a bad situation because the item matchups are pointed out right on the GamePad--you know exactly how to play your items because you know exactly what everyone else's items are!


Uh, letting you see everyone's items is only a good thing--now you can actually PLAN instead of wondering "gee I sure hope that guy in front of me doesn't have a shell right now". Now you can see that shell and know instantly "alright gotta dodge them". Or you're behind someone else, they grab an item and it's a Super Horn, you know that you gotta give them a wide berth. They have the upper hand and now control the field, but they'll also be itching to shoot it off. You can either risk trying to boost past them if you got a mushroom or the track is wide enough, but if you have a shell you can also weigh shooting it off so they waste the horn.

In Wii if the horn existed you'd mushroom past them and get hit with the horn out of nowhere because lolcan'tseeanyoneelse'sitems




I would rather sandbagging exist. When it isn't a tactic, an entire dimension of skill is removed from the game.


No sandbagging is a terrible tactic completely antithetical to the idea of beating the race as fast as possible. The fact that Wii not merely allowed but rewarded is proof of how broken the game was. 8 doesn't punish you for being good and getting past everyone else--nay, it rewards you for being better. Wii does not, hence why sandbagging exists.

Yes, that's the key word. There was actual tactic in MKW. Using items was a SKILL. I'm not sure why you feel that item skill is somehow inferior to driving skill, but I can't change your preferences. But I can say that Mario Kart 8 has less capacity for showing off skill. Just as much as items let bad players come back, it kept smart players in front. I'm not sure why you act like driving well is many times more important in MK8 than MKW. You couldn't race like crap and consistently win against good players no matter how lucky you were.


I wont deny that using items is a skill, but in Wii you could just spam whatever you got and inevitably climb up several places. The blue punished the leader for being good, lightning screwed everyone over royally...the game is just a big item-fest. You just have to pray that you get lucky when you hit an item box and even then, if you're high up you're gonna be annihilated by some noob with a bullet bill/star/lightning/blueshell/etc so what the hell's the point of even doing anything anyway?
---
Baby Rosalina and Baby Daisy fanboy for life. Respect our adorable princesses!
#16MultiShadow101Posted 6/10/2014 9:04:34 PM
Pardon me, but what is sandbagging?
#17Chagen46Posted 6/10/2014 9:07:37 PM
MultiShadow101 posted...
Pardon me, but what is sandbagging?



Intentionally going slow to get a good item.

It was very common on Wii.
---
Baby Rosalina and Baby Daisy fanboy for life. Respect our adorable princesses!
#18Matthew3DSGamerPosted 6/10/2014 9:08:36 PM
MultiShadow101 posted...
Pardon me, but what is sandbagging?


Purposely stopping in front of an item box to let people pass you, therefore giving you a better item.
---
Mega Absol is competitively viable. PM me if you agree.
Gamefaqs in a nutshell: http://i.imgur.com/zsJwM22.gif
#19Foolish_Banana2Posted 6/10/2014 9:10:26 PM(edited)
MultiShadow101 posted...
Pardon me, but what is sandbagging?


Falling back on purpose in hopes of blowing past everyone at the end with a favorable item and maybe even get a lightning bolt dodge thanks to a bullet bill or star.
---
Wii U NNID: Banana_Mew
3DS friend code: 3153-5426-5994
#20OverclockdPosted 6/10/2014 9:10:10 PM
MultiShadow101 posted...
Pardon me, but what is sandbagging?


Dropping in placement to get a better item. This doesn't work well in MK8 because the item outcome doesn't seem to be biased by placement. In MKW, dropping from 7th to 8th would increase the chances of getting a star or bullet from ~0% to ~30%.