Kunai vs. Hikou

#1bearded_moosePosted 1/7/2014 12:43:22 PM
i've been looking at the wiki for the last 30 minutes trying to figure out why i see so many people with the kunai and so few with the hikou, especially since the kunai only out-DPS the hikou on puncture damage. slash and impact are still better on the hikou.

according to the fire rate and reload speed/damage ratio, hikou should be the clear winner, so what am i missing here?
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#2Dark Hunter GCPosted 1/7/2014 12:52:37 PM
Kunai = High level areas
Hikou = Low/med level areas

Currently my Kunai do somewhere in the realm of 900 damage per hit. The Hikou with the same mods don't quite keep up after the elemental combos and armor ignore.
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It wasn't a rock....
#3lucky864Posted 1/7/2014 12:57:19 PM
I have both for the same reason. ROF is so high on hikou the dps vs kunai becomes smaller and the hikou rate of fire becomes unreasonable ie: 30 rof? Ya that doesn't happen it would be a shotgun ninja star. So only kunai seems to gain meaningful rof.
#4squiggy9996999Posted 1/7/2014 12:58:16 PM
i have no clue why everyone loves kunai. i was told that they rock, so i got them. i did not even know that hikou existed until i was looking at codex 3 days ago. from what i remember it was like half the damage, twice the rate of fire so it was kind of the same but that's a fuzzy recollection at best.

but it sounds like hi coup, so it's win win :)
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I want to agree with you but then we'd BOTH be wrong...
#5bearded_moose(Topic Creator)Posted 1/7/2014 1:07:44 PM
so the only thing that makes sense is that the numbers on the wiki are wrong.

the kunai deals a total of 45 damage per hit and has 10 rounds in the clip for a total of 450 base damage. it fires at 3.3 rounds per second.

the hikou deals a total of 25 damage per hit and has 20 rounds in the clip for a total of 500 base damage. it fires at 6.67 rounds per second which means it finishes firing all 20 rounds .01 second faster than the kunai fire 10.

according to the above statistics (all pulled from wiki... links included at the bottom), the hikou does 50 more damage infinitesimally faster than the kunai can empty a clip.

how does the kunai end up doing better?

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Kunai

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Hikou
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-Every fanboy needs a troll to keep him disillusioned.
if you're a gamefaqs mod, you're a childish, petty person with power issues.
#6squiggy9996999Posted 1/7/2014 1:09:23 PM
"so the only thing that makes sense is that the numbers on the wiki are wrong."


well warframe.wikia.com is actually an update ahead since it is for pc, right? you might be looking at the next update's damage?
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I want to agree with you but then we'd BOTH be wrong...
#7bearded_moose(Topic Creator)Posted 1/7/2014 1:18:37 PM
well, if i see more people sporting the stars after next update, i'll know that was the case.
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-Every fanboy needs a troll to keep him disillusioned.
if you're a gamefaqs mod, you're a childish, petty person with power issues.
#8squiggy9996999Posted 1/7/2014 1:19:31 PM
just a guess, btw. i dont have any real idea...
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I want to agree with you but then we'd BOTH be wrong...
#9Mega_TyrantPosted 1/7/2014 1:24:15 PM
Despair.
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Bludgeo'd for hammer...
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#10Dark Hunter GCPosted 1/7/2014 1:38:40 PM(edited)
bearded_moose posted...
well, if i see more people sporting the stars after next update, i'll know that was the case.


There are a few reasons. The wiki fails to note much about armor ignore. Kunai ignore armor, Hikou have something like 15% armor ignore. When fighting level 50+ this starts to matter. The other benefit is that higher base damage scales better with a heavy elemental mod build. Add in damage 2.0, multiple mod builds on Kunai will capitalize on the damage bonuses.

Take 360 corrosive damage as an example. Stack a damage multiplier of 75% to that, you get 630 damage. Higher base damage means higher multipliers. Stack the multipliers and Kunai beat out Hikou doing 140 damage with the same elemental build. In the long run, cranking the damage per Kunai edges out Hikou after you add the additional damage types outside of that single elemental bonus.

Both are good weapons and if you hit your target more consistently with Hikou, the Hikou are better. If you prefer a slower fire rate and are ok with focusing a bit more on precision, choose Kunai. Player skill makes more of a difference that crunched numbers. The numbers only matter to the extent of whether not they do enough damage. Kunai and Hikou both do enough damage.
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It wasn't a rock....