So...Frost will no longer be the King of Defense missions.(Snow globe nerf!)

#1HorridhalPosted 2/5/2014 12:46:14 PM
https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/172673-frost-252014/?p=2024438#entry2024438

Making this post prior to U12 on PC's release (coming soon!), because as everything is coming together, there have been changes made to Frost's powers that ought to be shared and discussed for further review.

Changes:

Ice Blast: Comparable to Ember's Fireball in casting time and result of impact/damage.
Avalanche: Increased casting speed and increased damage.
Snowglobe: Now has health that is increased with fusion (currently: 1500,2500,3000,3500)


Snowglobe being a solely duration based skill created issues of viability of other frames in the "Defense" mission types, as well as a skew towards pace of gameplay.

The goal is to get Snowglobe, and Frost overall, in a place of power and action, but does not render gameplay optional, but we need everyone's experiences to get it right as we continue to make changes.

Please discuss below your experiences with Frost and how you would balance his abilities with these changes in mind, as well as prepare to return to this thread after the Update has been deployed with further feedback.

Thanks, Tenno.

Clarification/FAQ 1: Will Strength Mods positively affect Snowglobes health after this change? Yes, they will!


I am vehemently opposed to this change because of the way enemy damage scales and the fact that snow globe will be taking damage from the full 360 degree area it is protecting.

Rhino with Iron Skin(comparable when modded for power strength) goes down in seconds, I see this going down even more quickly in high end play.

Please, discuss.
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#2FindTheSecretPosted 2/5/2014 12:50:56 PM
And i just started building Frost Prime *sigh*
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#3darkdragon_9600Posted 2/5/2014 12:54:02 PM
If they made it rely only on health, then Frost could at least make proper use of Fleeting Expertise without drawbacks, but knowing DE it'll also be duration based. Buffs are welcome, but I doubt they will make up for the changes in the Globe.

And I wonder why Ice Wave doesn't get anything? It should at least be wider :c
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#4Weltall548Posted 2/5/2014 12:54:20 PM
Nooooo!
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#5zeik56Posted 2/5/2014 1:06:21 PM(edited)
Well...****. Defense missions are going to suck now.

Here's hoping they actually thought about balance, because if it goes down in seconds during high level defenses I'm going to be real frustrated.
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#6squiggy9996999Posted 2/5/2014 1:07:25 PM
"I am vehemently opposed to this change because of the way enemy damage scales and the fact that snow globe will be taking damage from the full 360 degree area it is protecting."


the ability is broken, though. we knew a change was coming. it just means more casting in the end. if it is too weak, they will buff it. i like how they say "but does not render gameplay optional".


it's so true. did a tower 3 with my friend last night with a mag prime (me) and a frost.

i was using synapse and many enemies were out of range. i just stopped shooting and stood there. they would move positions but could not hurt us or the objective. getting to and from the mobile defense node used most of our ammo but the defense - we just stood there and waited, oocasionally using a power but enemies were ranged so they just shot at the globe and that was it.
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#7DoopdedooPosted 2/5/2014 1:11:30 PM
zeik56 posted...
Well...****. Defense missions are going to suck now.

Here's hoping they actually thought about balance, because if it goes down in seconds during high level defenses I'm going to be real frustrated.


Really, Frost isn't very good, even for defense missions. Vauban is MUCH better, so much better. Even Nyx is better.

That big ole globe just gets in the way of things really, more a hinderence than a help. Liked it at first, but now that we all have buffed our weapons and powers, just no. It gets in the way.
#8Horridhal(Topic Creator)Posted 2/5/2014 1:23:05 PM
squiggy9996999 posted...
"I am vehemently opposed to this change because of the way enemy damage scales and the fact that snow globe will be taking damage from the full 360 degree area it is protecting."


the ability is broken, though. we knew a change was coming. it just means more casting in the end. if it is too weak, they will buff it. i like how they say "but does not render gameplay optional".

it's so true. did a tower 3 with my friend last night with a mag prime (me) and a frost.

i was using synapse and many enemies were out of range. i just stopped shooting and stood there. they would move positions but could not hurt us or the objective. getting to and from the mobile defense node used most of our ammo but the defense - we just stood there and waited, oocasionally using a power but enemies were ranged so they just shot at the globe and that was it.


I disagree. I feel like you are confusing 'broken' and 'overpowered' with 'scales well,' and 'end game ability'.

The reason certain frames are more viable late than others is because of the way the powers work. Straight damage numbers do not scale well because doing 1k damage against level 20 enemies kills them, but doing 1k damage against level 200 enemies doesn't even move the bar.

Skills like shield polarize or molecular prime, for example, are based around %'s/debuffs as opposed to having a static damage amount. This allows them to remain effective regardless of enemy levels.

Snow globe was the single greatest defensive ability against ranged enemies of any level. They destroyed it and, in doing so, destroyed frost's viability as a late game frame.
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I'm not the nicest person you'll meet.
Have a real point please.
#9Horridhal(Topic Creator)Posted 2/5/2014 1:25:30 PM
Doopdedoo posted...
zeik56 posted...
Well...****. Defense missions are going to suck now.

Here's hoping they actually thought about balance, because if it goes down in seconds during high level defenses I'm going to be real frustrated.


Really, Frost isn't very good, even for defense missions. Vauban is MUCH better, so much better. Even Nyx is better.

That big ole globe just gets in the way of things really, more a hinderence than a help. Liked it at first, but now that we all have buffed our weapons and powers, just no. It gets in the way.


The only time Vauban is better than frost is against infested. Frost is much better for anything ranged because, unlike Vauban, enemies do not have to enter the globe to have the effect be useful.
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I'm not the nicest person you'll meet.
Have a real point please.
#10Mega_TyrantPosted 2/5/2014 1:26:55 PM
Ignore duration, mod for power efficiency+power strength. You now have to cast Snow Globe more often but the effects of high Power Efficiency should offset this, at the same time increase Power Strength (from mods and his Squall Helmet) should make his other powers that much more viable. Currently Frost relies almost exclusively on weaponry for damage output, granted end-game this will still be the case but mid-game stuff should now be much more fun when you can utilize your abilities without worrying that you won't have energy for Snow Globe.
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