so how exactly does dual classing work?

#1Eternal_SorrowXPosted 2/23/2009 1:57:52 AM
just beat the game, considering another run on max difficulty. say i want to be a fighter/cleric, fighter for the good proficiencies, ability to use all weapons, thaco etc and cleric for the spells (just want lvl 3 spells, no higher)

to achieve this do i essentially need to gain 10 lvls? e.g gain 5 as a cleric than click dual class and gain 5 as a fighter? will the exp cap even allow that?
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Hallowed are the Ori
#2joefitts63Posted 2/23/2009 4:24:38 AM
A couple of points.

One, being a fighter/cleric will NOT allow you to use all weapons. You will still be restricted to cleric weapons.

Two, when you dual, you completely lose all of the first class' abilities until the second class reaches a level above that of the first class. So if you go to fighter five, then dual to cleric, you will have to reach cleric six before you get your fighter abilities back. It is a whole lot simpler and more convenient to multi-class rather than dual.

As for the exp limit, it is 89000 without TotSC and 161000 with it. You can look up the experience required for levels in the manual, I think. If you multi-class rather than dual, you won't have to care.
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A good friend will help you move. A really good friend will help you move a body.
#3Southe05Posted 2/23/2009 6:25:29 AM
given the relatively low levels in this game a multiclass might be a better choice than a dual...
unless you have something specific in mind.
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Saruman: You did not seriously think that a hobbit could contend with the will of Southie, there are none that can.
#4The_Pig_Posted 2/23/2009 7:00:48 AM
Yeah, multiclasses are great in BG1. Multiclasses don't really show their weakness until you get into the millions of xp (which doesn't happen until BG2).

Multiclasses at low level will only be a level or two behind a pure class. It isn't until high levels when multiclasses start falling farther and farther behind a pure class. (For example, a pure mage needs three million xp to get his first level nine spell slot whereas a multiclass mage needs a whooping six million xp to get his first level nine spell slot.)

So unless you decide to import this character into BG2, then a multiclass will definitely be better than a dual class. Heck, even a multiclass fighter/cleric is probably better than a dual fighter to cleric in BG2 due to the fact that cleric's don't get really high level spells like mages (clerics only go to level seven spells) and you also get HLAs for both classes instead of just one (the cleric HLAs are not very good anyway so you probably would rather want the fighter HLAs).

Dual classes are kind of difficult to work around in BG1 due to the low xp caps. You have to really pay attention or you might screw yourself over and not be able to reactivate your original class abilities.

As for the weapon restrictions, a cleric will always be limited to blunt weapons only. I don't really understand the reasoning behind it, but it is due to the cleric's religion and beliefs that they can't use bladed weapons. It doesn't really make sense because paladins are also holy warriors but yet they can use bladed weapons. Plus, the gods have a "favored weapon" and many of the favored weapons are bladed. (For example, Mask favors the short sword.)

A multiclass fighter/mage however can use any weapon because a mage has no such religion or belief that prevents them from using certain weapons.
#5Eternal_SorrowX(Topic Creator)Posted 2/23/2009 8:27:12 AM
alright i'll go with multiclass then. how exactly does multiclass work? will i still need 10 lvls worth of exp to get a cleric 5 fighter 5? and when i switch to cleric does the req for next lvls get lower again or keep getting higher?

i assume a 5/5 lvl split is the most the lvl cap will allow unless multiclassing exp or lvling works differently.

if i go to cleric 5 and than start as a fighter and go from there, what can i expect from penalties and negative effects from that choice? i'll be a human if that helps
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Hallowed are the Ori
#6The_Pig_Posted 2/23/2009 9:11:33 AM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#7The_Pig_Posted 2/23/2009 9:14:44 AM
^ From that last post, I get the impression that you don't really understand dual and multi classing.

Humans are the only race allowed to dual class, and they cannot multiclass at all. All other races can multiclass, but they cannot dual class.

You also do not switch classes if you go the multiclass route. You are both classes simultaneously, and they are evenly split in experience but not levels.

You can see the experience tables for each class here:

http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg/character/classes/tables/xp.shtml

When you multiclass, using your fighter/cleric as an example, you start as a level 1 fighter/level 1 cleric. Experience will be evenly divided between both classes. For example, you kill a creature that is worth 100 xp. The fighter gets 50 xp and the cleric gets 50 xp. To become a level 2 fighter requires 2000 xp and to become a level 2 cleric requires 1500 xp. So this means that once you have a total of 3000 xp, you will be a level 1 fighter/level 2 cleric. Once you hit a total of 4000 xp, you will be level 2 fighter/level 2 cleric. The xp cap with TotSC installed is 161,000. This means that each class with max out at 80,500 xp.

Dual class is very different. You start out as one class and then at some point in time you switch to another class while your original class never gains any more xp. For example, if you start out as a fighter, all the xp gained will go to that one class. Then once you switch to the second class, the original class becomes deactivated. This means that you effectively start over as a level 1 character again complete with the level 1 THAC0, saving throws, proficiencies, attacks/round etc. Once the second class reaches one level higher than your original class, the original class will become reactivated. However, you will never again gain xp in the original class so that class will never again gain in levels.

Looking at the xp tables on the site I listed above, the highest you could take a fighter would be level 6. This is because the cleric must become level 7 before the fighter abilities are reactivated. A level 6 fighter is 32,000 xp and a level 7 cleric is 55,000 xp. This is a total of 87,000 xp which is doable under the xp cap. If you had instead gone to level 7 fighter, you would need to become a level 8 cleric. This is impossible with the xp cap. Level 7 fighter requires 64,000 xp and level 8 cleric requires 110,000 xp. That is a total of 174,000 xp which is over the xp cap.

The dual class is okay in BG1, but honestly that character would not be that great in BG2. 6 fighter levels isn't that much (and you will never gain any more). Plus, you miss out on the extra fighter half-attacks at levels 7 and 13. If you are really wanting to dual class, it would be better to play BG1 as a pure fighter and then dual over to cleric in BG2.

I still think the multiclass is going to be better in the long run though because as I said in a previous post, clerics don't get really high level spells. Level 7 is their highest level spell which you get the first slot I think at level 14 cleric. Plus, you would be missing out on fighter HLAs and cleric HLAs are not very good. The Hardiness fighter HLA combined with the Armor of the Faith cleric spell is very good. Hardiness gives you 40% resistance to physical attacks and Armor of the Faith gives you an additional 25% at level 20. This means you would be 65% resistance to all physical attacks. That is almost as good as the mage's Stoneskin and Protection from Magical Weapons.... almost....
#8Southe05Posted 2/23/2009 9:14:56 AM
multiclass basically means you are growing in two classes simultaneously
both start at the outset at level 1
every time you get 10 exp points, 5 go to one class and 5 go to the other
as a result, the typical multiclass will be about a level or two behind single class builds at comparable experience levels, but in two styles.

Jaheira is a good example of this. She's a druid figther multi.
So is Jan Jansen in part 2. illusionist thief multi.
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Saruman: You did not seriously think that a hobbit could contend with the will of Southie, there are none that can.
#9Southe05Posted 2/23/2009 9:15:44 AM
dangit. too fast for me, Pig.
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Saruman: You did not seriously think that a hobbit could contend with the will of Southie, there are none that can.
#10The_Pig_Posted 2/23/2009 9:49:20 AM
the typical multiclass will be about a level or two behind single class builds at comparable experience levels



That is actually only true for low level characters. In BG1, for example, the maximum level a pure fighter can obtain is level 8, and a multi fighter maxes out at level 7. However, the levels begin to drift farther and farther apart once you get into the mid and late levels. For example, a mage needs to be level 18 to get his first level 9 slot. Level 18 mage requires 3 million xp. A multi mage would therefore need 6 million xp. This is a huge difference...

That is one thing I hate about multi mages. It takes them ages before they can start memorizing level 9 spells. A pure mage will be casting level 9 spells by the end of SoA. A multi mage won't be casting level 9 spells until near the end of ToB.

In BG2, pure classes will get into the mid 30 levels and a few (the rogue classes) will even reach level 40. However, no multi will ever reach level 30. The multi mage will max out at level 20.