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Vivec or Almalexia

#1almsivi123Posted 4/15/2012 12:16:14 PM
So I'm returning to this board after a year and half hiatus having missed greatly the regulars such as senor gauntlet and the rest of the real crpg lovers (don't remember all the names). I'm just starting to replay Morrowind with a custom mod list and I had two questions.

The first of which is on lore. Of the Tribunal Vivec and Almalexia are by far more prolific than their iconoclastic compatriot Sotha Sil. From the in game books and from Almalexia's mental state in the expansion it appears that Vivec would be the real wielder of political power of the Almsivi even before the resurgence of Dagoth Ur and the blight diverted his attention. He was the one primarily behind the armistice according to 2920.

However, before she went insane Ayem was regarded as the "mother of morrowind," my question than is who in the eyes of the morrowind populace was more in charge of affairs during the time of their rule? Were Ayem and Vehk seen as equal but more involved than Seht or did one or the other shoulder a greater role?

My second question has to do with the mod project LGNPC, I have read alot about it and people seem to speak about it favorably. As a lore nut I'm wondering does it break immersion by changing the overall tone of the npc's effected to one not consistent with their race ("nice" dunmer, articulate slave races, everybody sounding human)?

Good to be back :), I missed this board.
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#2gmims44Posted 4/16/2012 6:03:56 AM
Spoilers I guess for anyone reading this who hasn't played the game or the expansions.

I think Almalexia was more concerned with political power than Vivec, both due to her location in Mournhold and her inability to deal with the loss of her powers, as opposed to Vivec, who not only accepted his fate but helped bring it about. In the Clockwork City she refers to Vivec derisively as a "poet," which indicates to me that Vivec was less of a political leader and more of spiritual leader than Almalexia. However, I think Vivec played a bigger role in containing Dagoth Ur at Red Mountain due to his location on Vvardenfell, so he obviously wasn't just a spiritual leader.
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#3Anon8492Posted 4/17/2012 12:09:52 AM
I think that Almalexia wielded more political power, but Vivec was looked up to more by the Dunmer.
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#4almsivi123(Topic Creator)Posted 4/17/2012 11:07:13 AM
Yea, I guess I'm of the opinion that Almalexia was probably marginalized in the past couple of centuries as it seems that the temple tries their best to cover up their patroness' descent into madness. The only way to do that would be to cut her off from high level decision making and public appearances. The example I had in mind was Mad Pelagius, emperor in name only. By the same token emperors are not gods and Almalexia still rains down ash storms on Mournhold.

I suppose another piece of evidence that Vivec is the more important of the two is that Vvardenfell seems to have been viewed as Morrowind's economic future with the lucrative ebony industry, as well as fertile farm land and a convenient highway system in the volcanic ruts. Vivec's presence on the island seems to suggest that his oversight was the most desired of the two.

Another question about the Temple concerning Vvardenfell. Up until the King Llethan overruled the Temple's decision and opened the territory up to colonization. It seems likely that Llethan did this with an Imperial interest in mind. The question is, did the Temple seek to prevent the colonization of Vvardenfell to cover up events at Red Mountain or were these events already public record?

Further, after the colonization the Temple and its stalwart ally House Redoran both resisted Hlaalu, Telvanni and Imperial pressure to expand their outposts. This move I don't really understand if the original colonial ban was simply a cover up. If the cat was out of the bag, so to speak, wouldn't it have made more sense for the Temple to urge Redoran into an expansionist posture so as to consolidate their influence on the island? As is we have Imperial cult shrines encroaching on Temple holy land.
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#5Anon8492Posted 4/17/2012 11:31:37 AM
Another question about the Temple concerning Vvardenfell. Up until the King Llethan overruled the Temple's decision and opened the territory up to colonization. It seems likely that Llethan did this with an Imperial interest in mind. The question is, did the Temple seek to prevent the colonization of Vvardenfell to cover up events at Red Mountain or were these events already public record?

I think it was less wanting to keep others from getting to Red Mountain (since any sane person would avoid it anyway) and more just Dunmer isolationism/xenophobia.

Further, after the colonization the Temple and its stalwart ally House Redoran both resisted Hlaalu, Telvanni and Imperial pressure to expand their outposts. This move I don't really understand if the original colonial ban was simply a cover up. If the cat was out of the bag, so to speak, wouldn't it have made more sense for the Temple to urge Redoran into an expansionist posture so as to consolidate their influence on the island? As is we have Imperial cult shrines encroaching on Temple holy land.

Sorry but I can't find any record of Redoran and the Temple standing by as the other houses expand. AFAIK Telvanni is the only one aggressively expanding and the Imperial Cult can be understood since their cause is holy. Where'd you get this information?
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#6ChocolatlPosted 4/17/2012 1:18:45 PM
All the Great Houses in Morrowind are aggressively expanding, not just Telvanni. Haven't you talked to any of the NPCs in the game?

In Caldera they'll say something like, "House Redoran is really steamed about the Caldera land grab [by House Hlaalu]." They wanted Caldera for themselves.

There are a lot of other in-game indications that they're all out for land and power.
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#7almsivi123(Topic Creator)Posted 4/17/2012 2:09:51 PM
Read Guide to Great Houses for sale at most bookstores in Morrowind. It describes the 5 houses in detail, and states that Redoran is not pursuing expansionist policies at the behest of the temple. I'm positive there are numerous other in game references to that fact.

Ex in A Short History of Morrowind: "Under pressure from the Temple, conservative House Redoran has steadfastly resisted expansion in their district. As a result, House Redoran and the Temple are in danger of being politically and economically marginalized by the more aggressive and expansionist Hlaalu and Telvanni interests."
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#8almsivi123(Topic Creator)Posted 4/17/2012 2:25:20 PM
Sorry for the double post. I understand the confusion, until I read the ingame books I was unclear on this as well. It doesn't really make much sense to me lore wise. My only guess would be that the temple based on intel from Vivec knew in advance that the Blight and Corprus situation was out of hand and that they would destroy any settlements in their path.

Perhaps this is why Redoran, the most combat efficient of the great houses, is settled the closest to Red Mountain. Like the Temple wanted Ald'Ruhn to serve as a Bulwark to advancing Sixth House forces in the event that the Ghost Fence faltered or collapsed.

Location wise it makes sense. Hlaalu gets the coastal areas without the disruptive rocks in Zafirbel Bay or around the Ascadian Isles' adjacent to Vivec that also on the side closer to Cyrodil. Its pretty clear that they are where they are for Imperial commerce. But what else does Redoran's settlement have in close proximity? The West Gash? The Ashlands? Since they are representing the Temple interest it looks like they are simply being used as an expendable bulwark to Dagoth's expanding influence.
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#9ChocolatlPosted 4/17/2012 2:26:27 PM
Don't believe everything you read.

Many of those books contradict one another.
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#10almsivi123(Topic Creator)Posted 4/17/2012 8:49:02 PM
Yea, but this is referenced in Temple as well as Imperial texts. Secondly, most of the disputed references are matters of history or religion. This is more a matter of current events.
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