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New to C++

#31Darkness_HeirPosted 6/3/2012 8:19:19 AM
The cranky hermit posted...

That's dumb. Yeah, I suppose it would be difficult to go from IDE to CLI, but why would you do that? That's like saying you should learn how to cook by rubbing sticks together before moving on to an electric stove.


Well, it's more like doing math with a dollar store calculator before you use a graphing calculator. You just have to keep track of what you're doing and understand what you're doing more this way. There is also the off chance of needing to remotely coding or text editing so learning a CLI would be useful. Although I can agree not everyone will ever need to use it.


Using an IDE's auto-complete features means you don't have to worry too much about syntax, which is a good thing if your IDE is smart enough to get the auto-complete right on a consistent basis. It frees you up to spend more time thinking about code structure, and actual good practices, like separating concerns and other practices that help make sure your code will be readable by someone who isn't you.


That's a fair point. My opinion is just that with a text editor, you have to look over your code more carefully so that forces you to be careful about what you're doing. Also, I think that learning the hard way would just allow more flexibility later on if/when you switch IDEs, it wouldn't be as tough if you are missing any of the features in one IDE.

I have no problem with someone starting with a full IDE, since CLI is probably a little niche in it's usefulness anyways.
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#32I_am_always_mePosted 6/3/2012 8:33:09 AM
I use Dev C++, but I think I am going to switch to Notepad C++ because it does indentation so much better.
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#33me1122Posted 6/3/2012 9:36:51 AM
I've used VS C++ and codeblocks. Code blocks is way better.
#34Erik212Posted 6/3/2012 12:55:32 PM
Starting with an IDE vs just an editor is like going into the wilderness with a GPS but no map, if the batteries die then you're screwed. With a map and compass you will always be able to navigate and find your way. A GPS is all nice and good, but it is wise to be familiar with the more basic of tools. Also, once you get familiar with vim commands you can code amazingly fast.
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#35Frost_shock_FTWPosted 6/3/2012 1:02:53 PM
After a bit of experience with vim you actually can jump around faster than in an IDE. The problem is if you're working in vim for a large project you're going to have to set up a robust build environment with Make.

For smaller scale projects that can be handled with g++ alone or a relatively straightforward Makefile, I'd recommend vim.
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#36The cranky hermitPosted 6/3/2012 1:12:27 PM
My opinion is just that with a text editor, you have to look over your code more carefully so that forces you to be careful about what you're doing.

My point is that it doesn't so much force you to be careful as it punishes you for making trivial errors, like getting the case of a method wrong.

Starting with an IDE vs just an editor is like going into the wilderness with a GPS but no map, if the batteries die then you're screwed.

Since when do IDEs have anything analogous to dying batteries? You install the IDE. It works. It then continues working no matter how long you use it.

Also, once you get familiar with vim commands you can code amazingly fast.

Only if you're coding trivial apps, and if you're using C++ to code trivial apps you are either just learning (in which case "amazingly fast" isn't an objective), or you are using the wrong tool.
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#37Frost_shock_FTWPosted 6/3/2012 2:17:35 PM
The cranky hermit posted...
Only if you're coding trivial apps, and if you're using C++ to code trivial apps you are either just learning (in which case "amazingly fast" isn't an objective), or you are using the wrong tool.


I use vim at my job, and the amount of code is decidedly non-trivial.
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#38The cranky hermitPosted 6/3/2012 2:21:47 PM
Then I pity the poor shmuck who will at some time in the future be forced to maintain the gigantic piles of disorganized code you wrote "amazingly fast."
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#39SpacewhizguyPosted 6/3/2012 2:35:38 PM
Lol, are people seriously saying that new programmers should learn programming the hard way without a good IDE and stuff? What a terrible idea. A new programmer needs to learn the core concepts of programming and not be boggled down by stuff like compiling issues and spending hours finding minor syntax errors.

Erik212 posted...
Starting with an IDE vs just an editor is like going into the wilderness with a GPS but no map, if the batteries die then you're screwed. With a map and compass you will always be able to navigate and find your way. A GPS is all nice and good, but it is wise to be familiar with the more basic of tools. Also, once you get familiar with vim commands you can code amazingly fast.


Pretty bad analogy. The "batteries" of an IDE won't run out.
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#40Treason686Posted 6/3/2012 6:29:05 PM(edited)
ElementalWind posted...
Why not use an IDE? I never understood this. It can make programming so much easier.
I suppose it's also worth adding than when we switch our first-year students from Racket to Java, their asking for help getting their code to work mostly gets replaced by asking for help getting Eclipse to work.


One could also interpret that as the IDE is doing its job.

Learning something like Eclipse may take a little while, but in the long run it will save a lot of time.
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