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I5 3570k vs 8350?

#31daemon_danPosted 8/18/2013 12:24:48 AM
DarkZV2Beta posted...
GreenMage7 posted...
DarkZV2Beta posted...
"Cores" sharing L2 cache goes all the way back to Intel's first multicore CPUs. People complained about them not being real multicore CPUs because of that, actually.
BD shares a lot more than L2 between "cores".
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/AMD_Bulldozer_block_diagram_%28CPU_core_bloack%29.PNG


But exactly what point are you trying to make as it relates to this thread?

This side track started here:

daemon_dan posted...
Boge posted...
Some argue the 8 cores from the 8350 will make it the choice CPU in the long run since the new consoles have 8 cores.

I feel that by the time the number of cores actually came into play beyond 4, you'll be looking to buy a new CPU anyway.


except four of those cores aren't even real cores.


I'm seriously lost as to what you are trying to say. How does what you are saying relate to the discussion? Maybe then I'll understand.


This topic is clearly for discussion of 3570k and 8350, in particular, their relative performance and rationale for choosing one over the other.
How is the core structure of the 8350, as compared to the more traditional core structure of 3570k, not relevant?


^
So much this. If you want to compare an 8 core to a 4 core, the only REAL choice out there is an intel Xeon workstation 8+ core.
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"Nowhere is longer safe. The earth MOVES under our feet. The great world tree, Yggdrasil, trembles to it's roots."
#32GreenMage7Posted 8/18/2013 12:27:30 AM
DarkZV2Beta posted...
This topic is clearly for discussion of 3570k and 8350, in particular, their relative performance and rationale for choosing one over the other.
How is the core structure of the 8350, as compared to the more traditional core structure of 3570k, not relevant?


Because the discussion was brought up in relation to the consoles, which will use 8 "core" Jaguar CPUs. However, the Jaguar does not actually have eight physical cores either. So the architecture used on the consoles is similar to that used by the FX processors. What you are going on about isn't actually related to how this was started, and if anything you are only reaffirming what has already been said.
#33daemon_danPosted 8/18/2013 12:30:20 AM(edited)
GreenMage7 posted...
DarkZV2Beta posted...
This topic is clearly for discussion of 3570k and 8350, in particular, their relative performance and rationale for choosing one over the other.
How is the core structure of the 8350, as compared to the more traditional core structure of 3570k, not relevant?


Because the discussion was brought up in relation to the consoles, which will use 8 "core" Jaguar CPUs. However, the Jaguar does not actually have eight physical cores either. So the architecture used on the consoles is similar to that used by the FX processors. What you are going on about isn't actually related to how this was started, and if anything you are only reaffirming what has already been said.


Then how about this. Since none of them are actually 8 core processors, guess what? Any game that doesn't NEED to use the extra 4 threads likely won't, and anything from intel will outshine it. Again. Better?

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"Nowhere is longer safe. The earth MOVES under our feet. The great world tree, Yggdrasil, trembles to it's roots."
#34GreenMage7Posted 8/18/2013 12:35:11 AM
daemon_dan posted...
Then how about this. Since none of them are actually 8 core processors, guess what? Any game that doesn't NEED to use the extra 4 threads likely won't, and anything from intel will outshine it. Again. Better?


Well, as I already pointed out in this thread, it's likely that games will likely only be able to use 6 of the console's threads. And there would be no reason for them to not utilize all six available threads because every single person with the console has it. Therefore, if they are porting the game over from the console code there is no reason for them to not support 6 threads or possibly even more. I already set that it was only a perk if you were already getting the processor for reasons already discussed and not a reason to buy it in the first place.

I also already said that if you are only gaming and doing internet/music, then you should get an i5. Nice edit out of the hyper-threading remark when you realized it didn't apply to the i5 by the way. ;-)
#35daemon_danPosted 8/18/2013 12:42:08 AM
GreenMage7 posted...
daemon_dan posted...
Then how about this. Since none of them are actually 8 core processors, guess what? Any game that doesn't NEED to use the extra 4 threads likely won't, and anything from intel will outshine it. Again. Better?


Well, as I already pointed out in this thread, it's likely that games will likely only be able to use 6 of the console's threads. And there would be no reason for them to not utilize all six available threads because every single person with the console has it. Therefore, if they are porting the game over from the console code there is no reason for them to not support 6 threads or possibly even more. I already set that it was only a perk if you were already getting the processor for reasons already discussed and not a reason to buy it in the first place.

I also already said that if you are only gaming and doing internet/music, then you should get an i5. Nice edit out of the hyper-threading remark when you realized it didn't apply to the i5 by the way. ;-)


Yeah for some reason I was thinking 3770 k. But in any case, console ports, may use 6 threads, but the likelihood of a performance boost using an AMD 8350 over a 3570k is likely to be minimal, if at all. The console processors are weak. there's nothing they can do on 6 threads that can't be accomplished in 4 threads, faster, with a 3570. So it's a wash. Maybe an i7 will get a good boost, having hyperthreading as well as being considerably stronger core for core, but the 8350 won't likely have any kind of advantages, since the consoles are still using an abstraction layer (I know right, wtf) to program games for. For the xbone it will be direct x 11, and the PS4, a Dx11 compatible API.
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"Nowhere is longer safe. The earth MOVES under our feet. The great world tree, Yggdrasil, trembles to it's roots."
#36GreenMage7Posted 8/18/2013 12:48:34 AM
daemon_dan posted...
Yeah for some reason I was thinking 3770 k. But in any case, console ports, may use 6 threads, but the likelihood of a performance boost using an AMD 8350 over a 3570k is likely to be minimal, if at all. The console processors are weak. there's nothing they can do on 6 threads that can't be accomplished in 4 threads, faster, with a 3570. So it's a wash.


I agree. That's why I said it was a perk and not a reason to buy it in the first place. I think most intelligent people realize this, however, the 8350 already performs well and this will make it perform a little better. It's nice if you were already getting it.

Maybe an i7 will get a good boost, having hyperthreading as well as being considerably stronger core for core, but the 8350 won't likely have any kind of advantages, since the consoles are still using an abstraction layer (I know right, wtf) to program games for. For the xbone it will be direct x 11, and the PS4, a Dx11 compatible API.


Well, from a strict performance standpoint, yes. If you have the money for an i7 then by all means get it. There are actually specific tasks that the 8350 outperforms i7s in because the 8350's "hardware accelerated hyper-threading" as it has been so called gives about an 80% performance from the "4 cores" while hyper-threading is more along the lines of 30%, but edges out in some things because of the single-threaded performance. Of course with the processor and motherboard combined you're looking at considerably more money.

I think most people realize that if money is no issue then Intel wins from a performance standpoint. That's why AMD prices the 8350 (and more importantly, the 8320) below i5 price. And why the FX-6300 is priced at i3 level (and if you are on a budget the FX-6300 is a tremendous value).
#37VoxwikPosted 8/18/2013 10:38:46 AM(edited)
DarkZV2Beta posted...
GreenMage7 posted...
DarkZV2Beta posted...
"Cores" sharing L2 cache goes all the way back to Intel's first multicore CPUs. People complained about them not being real multicore CPUs because of that, actually.
BD shares a lot more than L2 between "cores".
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/AMD_Bulldozer_block_diagram_%28CPU_core_bloack%29.PNG


But exactly what point are you trying to make as it relates to this thread?

This side track started here:

daemon_dan posted...
Boge posted...
Some argue the 8 cores from the 8350 will make it the choice CPU in the long run since the new consoles have 8 cores.

I feel that by the time the number of cores actually came into play beyond 4, you'll be looking to buy a new CPU anyway.


except four of those cores aren't even real cores.


I'm seriously lost as to what you are trying to say. How does what you are saying relate to the discussion? Maybe then I'll understand.


This topic is clearly for discussion of 3570k and 8350, in particular, their relative performance and rationale for choosing one over the other.
How is the core structure of the 8350, as compared to the more traditional core structure of 3570k, not relevant?

The core structure isn't as relevant because the superiority of the Intel CPUs is not primarily due to that. Even Intel CPUs without hyperthreading stomp AMDs in performance. For the first time ever I bought an Intel CPU this year (actually you might be one of the posters that swayed me many months before I planned to upgrade). I don't hate AMD, but the company is just objectively behind right now, and their "two cores sharing resources in a module" architecture is not the leading cause of that.
#38Sergei_DukanovPosted 8/18/2013 10:50:12 AM
Get either one. I have a 8350 and so does my friend. My cousin has the i5 3570k. They both work great. Both play games great. Hell, even my brothers A10 works just fine. Just make sure that which ever one you go with, get a good mobo for it.
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" The capacity to learn is a gift;The ability to learn is a skill;The willingness to learn is a choice." Gamer Tag: XT356