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Should I give Dragon Age Origins another chance?

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2 years ago#31
KURRUPTOR posted...
PraetorXyn posted...
KURRUPTOR posted...
Gynthaeres posted...
I think people will generally fall into two camps with Dragon Age Origins:


1. They've never really played a dialogue-focused wRPG other than maybe Mass Effect. They tend to be much more forgiving of the game. They're willing to overlook the flaws, partly because they're discovering a new genre they enjoy, and partly because they don't have much to compare the game to.
These people tend to adore the game, and consider it a masterpiece.

2. They have played other dialogue-focused wRPGs, and oftentimes this list includes Planescape: Torment, and the original Fallouts.
These people tend to look at Dragon Age Origins more critically, and realize that it really doesn't stand up to scrutiny


That's a very passive-aggressive post there, and it's way off the mark. Your essentially saying that noobs will like it and that experienced players will not.


Whether he's being an ass about it or not, the fact remains that someone who played the Infinity Engine games has a lot more basis to compare it to than someone who didn't, and the former group most often believes it fell short.


Modernizing a game does not always make it bad, imo (and many other peoples') DA:O did a great job of modernizing the genre. If you want to play Baldur's Gate then go play Baldur's Gate it was a great game for it's time and it's still very fun, but there is no reason that DA:O should try to be the exact same game, it's not what was intended and to criticize it for that doesn't make much sense to me.


The only thing modernized in DA:O are the graphics. They took 10 step backwards with the story and gameplay.
2 years ago#32
*slight DAO spoilers I guess*

KURRUPTOR posted...
Modernizing a game does not always make it bad, imo (and many other peoples') DA:O did a great job of modernizing the genre. If you want to play Baldur's Gate then go play Baldur's Gate it was a great game for it's time and it's still very fun, but there is no reason that DA:O should try to be the exact same game, it's not what was intended and to criticize it for that doesn't make much sense to me.


It's not really about modernizing a game, or a game type, for me. Some people might hate DAO just because it's not identical to BG2. I'm not concerned with those types of people; they tend to be impossible to please.

Even on its own, DAO is simply an extremely flawed game. Now some of the flaws might not matter if you've only ever played DAO. For example, the characters: The fact that Alistair is basically the same character as Carth, that Sten is more-or-less the same character as Canderous, that Shale is essentially HK-47, that Lelianna is extremely reminiscent of Mission... If you've never played KotOR, who cares? The writing overall was pretty solid.

But there are other, more apparent issues. Things I mentioned. Like the "moral choices": Most of them have one right answer, and the rest of the answers are wrong. Saving the kid, for example. You could sacrifice him, or you could sacrifice his mother. Or, you could just go enlist help and save them both. Yay! Most major choices are like that.

Level design. The Mage Tower just enraged me, as it forced me to fight demon after demon, by conveniently blocking off the most direct route to the stairs. Either by using wooden furniture barricades (erected to stop fire demons, tell me how well that'd work?) or by simply disabling a door. This door worked before during my origin story, but suddenly I can't click on it to open it?

The story itself. Loghain's reasons for betrayal... or lack thereof. I suppose you could justify it as a power grab, but why would be be able to do that? His only claim to power is through his daughter, who's fully capable of ruling. And you don't appoint a regent when there's a capable ruler available.
Not to mention he throws away the entire army and starts a civil war during an invasion. Maybe he hoped to unite the land under the crisis? Didn't seem to think it through very well. Also, throwing the Wardens under the bus was silly. He could have easily justified why he withdrew, and instead he vilified the Wardens.


Slayn posted...
Funny, I can make the same arguments about BG2. Was leveling up particularly exciting? No. Did ANY choice make a difference in the game? No. Did race/class/stats make any difference? No. Completely broken combat. The game had almost no "roleplaying" elements lacking in comparison to similar games such as PS:T. Even DA:O acknowledged your race/class more than BG2 did.


I hope DAO acknowledged your race/class more than BG2 did. It's right there in the title: "Origins". It better do a half-decent job of making it matter. Unfortunately, it only does a half-decent job. Considering it's in the title like that, I expected more.

As far as the rest of your comparisons to BG2... Great? Don't know why you're replying to me with it though, I never once mentioned BG2 in my original post.

I'll happily admit Baldur's Gate 2 had issues. I don't agree with all of your criticisms, but it did have a good few problems. Like the reputation system, foreshadowing the awful binary good/evil system Bioware would stick with for the next few games.
I don't think comparing DAO's leveling system to BG2's is fair though. DAO tried to be an original system. BG2 was emulating D&D.
2 years ago#33
Ryamus posted...
I've never seen so much Dragon Age: Origins hate before. I'm used to people bashing 2. Give it another chance TC. My favorite game this gen


Its because the EA hate train is retroactive. Bioware made "the best RPG of our generation", but soon as EA acquired it, all their past games are "trash" now.

I myself think dragon age is slightly overrated. I however remember DA origins being top game and board on here forever and everyone and their momma saying it's the best thing since slice bread.
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2 years ago#34
Characters might be similar to characters from past games but if you ask me that's just bound to happen. Some characters are pretty boring yes but there's also a few good ones like Wynn and Morigan, it's pretty hard to come up with 5-10 new characters that aren't going to have similarities to past characters from other game in this day and age.

I actually liked the "moral choices" in this game... at least you actually get a choice. Most games that feature this kinds of system also feature some sort of karma system for your character... Like doing the good deed increases your light side points vs doing the evil deed increases your dark side points. When systems like that are in place it almost takes away from the choice rather than creating it, because your stuck ALWAYS doing the good thing or ALWAYS doing the bad thing, otherwise your light/dark side points never get to where they need to be.

I will give you that the choices are always pretty cut and dry (save the elven area...That section was at least a bit interesting). There isn't much gray choices in the game like "sacrifice this small part of town and the civillians in it in order to save the more of the city at the end of the battle" where you actually wound up not having any easy decision.

Level design I'll give you for the mage tower at least, but honestly if you could just fly up to the top of the tower it would have made for a pretty short "dungeon"... this just kinda falls in the suspension of dis-belief category to me, it's an intentional cop-out by the devs in order to make the "dungeon" last longer, and I personally didn't mind it too much.

Loghain was actually a very good character imo. You have to look at it from his perspective of being a general that has spent his entire life fighting for his country and trying to earn it's independence. After years of sacrifice and probably countless country-men being sent to their deaths at his command the new king (which quite obviously was a man-child) immediately wanted to open the door and invite the former occupiers of his country right back in. Essentially negating his life's work/sacrifices it took to get them out. He was quite convinced that the dark-spawn were not a real threat anymore in the current world (as many others did through-out the game, since they had basically not been anything more than a nuisance for hundreds of years), and saw the real threat being the humans from the near-by country getting easy access to stroll right back in.

Basically the man was a patriot that dedicated his whole life to his country/cause and he saw the new child-king start to un-ravel everything because he wanted to play hero with the gray-wardens. Loghain, who did all the work giving that king his king-ship, was basically being told to go stuff it by a young child that had no respect for someone who had actually been in battles... even refused to listen to his advice about the battle at ostagar. From his perspective Loghain probably figured he had little choice in the matter.
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2 years ago#35
happyscrub1 posted...
Ryamus posted...
I've never seen so much Dragon Age: Origins hate before. I'm used to people bashing 2. Give it another chance TC. My favorite game this gen


Its because the EA hate train is retroactive. Bioware made "the best RPG of our generation", but soon as EA acquired it, all their past games are "trash" now.

I myself think dragon age is slightly overrated. I however remember DA origins being top game and board on here forever and everyone and their momma saying it's the best thing since slice bread.


I agree with this guy on both counts.
2 years ago#36
Yes, it's a very solid RPG. Avoid the sequel unless you end up loving the first one..
2 years ago#37
KURRUPTOR posted...
Characters might be similar to characters from past games but if you ask me that's just bound to happen. Some characters are pretty boring yes but there's also a few good ones like Wynn and Morigan, it's pretty hard to come up with 5-10 new characters that aren't going to have similarities to past characters from other game in this day and age.

I actually liked the "moral choices" in this game... at least you actually get a choice. Most games that feature this kinds of system also feature some sort of karma system for your character... Like doing the good deed increases your light side points vs doing the evil deed increases your dark side points. When systems like that are in place it almost takes away from the choice rather than creating it, because your stuck ALWAYS doing the good thing or ALWAYS doing the bad thing, otherwise your light/dark side points never get to where they need to be.

I will give you that the choices are always pretty cut and dry (save the elven area...That section was at least a bit interesting). There isn't much gray choices in the game like "sacrifice this small part of town and the civillians in it in order to save the more of the city at the end of the battle" where you actually wound up not having any easy decision.

Level design I'll give you for the mage tower at least, but honestly if you could just fly up to the top of the tower it would have made for a pretty short "dungeon"... this just kinda falls in the suspension of dis-belief category to me, it's an intentional cop-out by the devs in order to make the "dungeon" last longer, and I personally didn't mind it too much.

Loghain was actually a very good character imo. You have to look at it from his perspective of being a general that has spent his entire life fighting for his country and trying to earn it's independence. After years of sacrifice and probably countless country-men being sent to their deaths at his command the new king (which quite obviously was a man-child) immediately wanted to open the door and invite the former occupiers of his country right back in. Essentially negating his life's work/sacrifices it took to get them out. He was quite convinced that the dark-spawn were not a real threat anymore in the current world (as many others did through-out the game, since they had basically not been anything more than a nuisance for hundreds of years), and saw the real threat being the humans from the near-by country getting easy access to stroll right back in.

Basically the man was a patriot that dedicated his whole life to his country/cause and he saw the new child-king start to un-ravel everything because he wanted to play hero with the gray-wardens. Loghain, who did all the work giving that king his king-ship, was basically being told to go stuff it by a young child that had no respect for someone who had actually been in battles... even refused to listen to his advice about the battle at ostagar. From his perspective Loghain probably figured he had little choice in the matter.


I actually agree about Loghain. At first I pretty much just though "Wow, what a ****." but by the time I finished it I sympathized with the guy. He was an old man who spent his life fighting for his country and felt betrayed by the king like you said. Sadly he was stuck in his ways though too and I think he knew the Darkspawn were a threat, not so much in the beginning, but just wanted to believe it wasnt as bad as it was.
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2 years ago#38
happyscrub1 posted...
Ryamus posted...
I've never seen so much Dragon Age: Origins hate before. I'm used to people bashing 2. Give it another chance TC. My favorite game this gen


Its because the EA hate train is retroactive. Bioware made "the best RPG of our generation", but soon as EA acquired it, all their past games are "trash" now.

I myself think dragon age is slightly overrated. I however remember DA origins being top game and board on here forever and everyone and their momma saying it's the best thing since slice bread.


This is BS. The vast majority of hatred for DA:O comes from people who felt it didn't live up to Baldur's Gate 2 and Neverwinter Nights 2. Their past games are the good ones, not trash.

DA:O may very well be the best RPG of its generation, but that says more about the decline of the genre than it does about DA:O being good. It wasn't a terrible game, but it didn't deserve half the acclaim it got either.
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2 years ago#39
Ch3wy posted...
No.

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2 years ago#40
As long we all agree with the fact that DA:O is better than The Witcher, I can die a happy man.
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