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Adantages and Disadvantages of V-Sync?

#21claytonbuckleyPosted 8/22/2013 4:23:08 PM
I read a thing, no idea how right it was but i'll repeat it anyways.

say you have a game that runs easily, like 200 fps. If you have vsync on it makes the game use alot less resources because it only has to produce 60fps that you can see instead of the 200+ you can't even see because your monitor can only show you 60.

Made sense to me, also some games are weird. Torchlight 2 for me drops down to about 30fps with vsync on during fights, but with it off i get 300+. other games are wierd as well, i got screen tearing with vsync on in wow, but vsync off it ran fine at ultra settings.
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#22thatfool12GsPosted 8/22/2013 6:03:13 PM
Advantage: makes movement smoother, eliminates tearing

Disadvantage: Causes a FPS drop to fall below the monitor refresh rate with will make the game choppy, whereas a FPS hit at 90 FPS will usually stay above the refresh rate and avoid the choppiness.
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#23fuzzymanPosted 8/22/2013 6:09:35 PM
it curbs temperatures and power consumption
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#24Marblesbunbun(Topic Creator)Posted 8/22/2013 7:55:37 PM
Apparently setting it to Borderless Windowed mode fixed the tearing
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#25ZeraphLordSPosted 8/23/2013 5:32:39 AM(edited)
Marblesbunbun posted...
I didn't notice any input lag but I am curious as to what causes it.
Thank you for all this information.


No problem :)

Shebeskii posted...
I have to add to the post by ZeraphLord:

Nvidia's control panel does indeed add vertical sync to all Direct X titles - it's not just OpenGL.

What you're referring to is Triple Buffering, which only works for OpenGL through Nvidia's and AMD's driver feature sets.


Yeah, I thought I had mentioned that, but apparently not. I shouldn't do these things when I'm tired. Anyhow, thankyou :)


Also botched this entire section (which can be essentially thought of as render time + time left until refresh:

30fps @ 60hz = 33.33ms - 50ms = 41.67ms average

60fps @ 60hz = 16.67ms - 33.33ms = 25ms average

120fps @ 60hz = 8.33ms - 16.67ms = 12.5ms average

240fps @ 60hz = 4.17ms - 8.33ms = 6.25ms average

300fps (Source default max) @ 60hz = 3.33ms - 6.67ms = 5ms average


At 120hz, this changes to:

30fps @ 120hz = 33.33ms - 41.67ms = 37.5ms average

60fps @ 120hz = 16.67ms - 25ms = 20.83ms average

120fps @ 120hz = 8.33ms - 16.67ms = 12.50ms average

240fps @ 120hz = 4.17ms - 8.33ms = 6.25ms average

300fps @ 120hz = 3.33ms - 6.67ms = 5ms average

So not that really beneficial input lag-wise once your framerates exceed the refresh rate. Smoothness and temporal frame placement were always the big draws, anyway.


Marblesbunbun posted...
Garquille14 posted...
DISPLAY LAG, not input lag


Either works, both mean the time between you hit the button and the reaction happens on screen.


Yeah, with the prevalence of the fighting game community and input lag benchmarks solely for monitors, I'd rather that Display Lag was used solely to refer to lag as a result of image processing by the display. Input lag is a general term that encompasses everything from your input -> when feedback is generated.

What I'm talking about here is solely: gamestate to be rendered -> render time -> wait until buffer is polled for refresh -> display.


Hopefully now that the board is re-archiving, this can be a vsync/input lag primer of sorts. Didn't really cover why tears occur, but that's a bit more difficult to explain, especially without imagery.
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#26ZeraphLordSPosted 8/23/2013 5:28:53 AM
claytonbuckley posted...
I read a thing, no idea how right it was but i'll repeat it anyways.

say you have a game that runs easily, like 200 fps. If you have vsync on it makes the game use alot less resources because it only has to produce 60fps that you can see instead of the 200+ you can't even see because your monitor can only show you 60.


Yes, that's correct. If you have a microstuttery GPU, having only just enough frames for the refresh rate can end up being less smooth than a great excess, but that's not usually a big problem.

I like you for being telling when you've encountered hearsay :)

claytonbuckley posted...
Made sense to me, also some games are weird. Torchlight 2 for me drops down to about 30fps with vsync on during fights, but with it off i get 300+. other games are wierd as well, i got screen tearing with vsync on in wow, but vsync off it ran fine at ultra settings.


Double-buffered vsync depends on minimums, so even if you're getting 300fps, if one of those frames took over 16.67ms to render, double-buffering willl drop you to 30fps for a second. Could be microstutter, could be something else. If you still want vsync in TL2, run D3DOverrider and force Triple-buffering. It'll make a sound to tell you when it's working.

In that WoW case, the vsync wasn't working for whatever reason. Vsync always prevents tears when working, and nothing else. Could be that it limited your framerate without applying vsync, thus causing an extremely perceptible effect, maybe. Unlimited frames does reduce the appearance of tearing somewhat (due to more similarity between frames), provided you're not near a multiple of your refresh rate (which makes tearing look a while lot worse, due to stationary or sliding tears).
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#27Marblesbunbun(Topic Creator)Posted 8/23/2013 5:17:59 PM
ZeraphLordS posted...
Marblesbunbun posted...
I didn't notice any input lag but I am curious as to what causes it.
Thank you for all this information.


No problem :)

Shebeskii posted...
I have to add to the post by ZeraphLord:

Nvidia's control panel does indeed add vertical sync to all Direct X titles - it's not just OpenGL.

What you're referring to is Triple Buffering, which only works for OpenGL through Nvidia's and AMD's driver feature sets.


Yeah, I thought I had mentioned that, but apparently not. I shouldn't do these things when I'm tired. Anyhow, thankyou :)


Also botched this entire section (which can be essentially thought of as render time + time left until refresh:

30fps @ 60hz = 33.33ms - 50ms = 41.67ms average

60fps @ 60hz = 16.67ms - 33.33ms = 25ms average

120fps @ 60hz = 8.33ms - 16.67ms = 12.5ms average

240fps @ 60hz = 4.17ms - 8.33ms = 6.25ms average

300fps (Source default max) @ 60hz = 3.33ms - 6.67ms = 5ms average


At 120hz, this changes to:

30fps @ 120hz = 33.33ms - 41.67ms = 37.5ms average

60fps @ 120hz = 16.67ms - 25ms = 20.83ms average

120fps @ 120hz = 8.33ms - 16.67ms = 12.50ms average

240fps @ 120hz = 4.17ms - 8.33ms = 6.25ms average

300fps @ 120hz = 3.33ms - 6.67ms = 5ms average

So not that really beneficial input lag-wise once your framerates exceed the refresh rate. Smoothness and temporal frame placement were always the big draws, anyway.


Marblesbunbun posted...
Garquille14 posted...
DISPLAY LAG, not input lag


Either works, both mean the time between you hit the button and the reaction happens on screen.


Yeah, with the prevalence of the fighting game community and input lag benchmarks solely for monitors, I'd rather that Display Lag was used solely to refer to lag as a result of image processing by the display. Input lag is a general term that encompasses everything from your input -> when feedback is generated.

What I'm talking about here is solely: gamestate to be rendered -> render time -> wait until buffer is polled for refresh -> display.


Hopefully now that the board is re-archiving, this can be a vsync/input lag primer of sorts. Didn't really cover why tears occur, but that's a bit more difficult to explain, especially without imagery.


I'm still trying to figure out why borderless windowmode made the tearing disappear.
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#28ZeraphLordSPosted 8/24/2013 12:37:06 AM
Marblesbunbun posted...
I'm still trying to figure out why borderless windowmode made the tearing disappear.


Are you using windows 7 or windows 8? Aero applies vsync while on your desktop, with the usual input lag caveats. You can disable this by right clicking on the shortcut you use to launch the game (or the executable), and checking the "disable desktop composition" checkbox under compatibility, if you want to check.
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The best course of action is to just get the information you need, then get out while you're still alive. - destroy everything on GameFAQs
#29Marblesbunbun(Topic Creator)Posted 8/24/2013 1:43:29 PM
ZeraphLordS posted...
Marblesbunbun posted...
I'm still trying to figure out why borderless windowmode made the tearing disappear.


Are you using windows 7 or windows 8? Aero applies vsync while on your desktop, with the usual input lag caveats. You can disable this by right clicking on the shortcut you use to launch the game (or the executable), and checking the "disable desktop composition" checkbox under compatibility, if you want to check.


I still get 120+ FPS on Wow in windowed mode though.
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#30Mr kittyPosted 8/24/2013 1:55:22 PM
Garquille14 posted...
DISPLAY LAG, not input lag


Basically input lag doesn't exist which the proper term would be display lag. They basically mean the same thing.

Vsync:

Con:
-Add display lag(get worst on weaker Graphic Card & Gaming Laptop)
-Limit the framerate to the supported refresh rate
-lag
-lag
-lag
-lag
-lag




Pro:
-Reduce the usage of the GPU by limiting the framerate to the refresh rate of the game display resolution setting.
-Save power consumption
-Reduce stuttering & make the framerate even
-Get rid of tearing make all the frame visible which make the game look smoother.
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