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Is Civilization IV a good place to start learning about 4x games?

#11TimePharaohPosted 8/30/2013 10:52:55 PM
Mwulf posted...


And, anyway, if you want to get into Civilization... the beginning and end is Civilization 5.


wut
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#12GhennkinsPosted 8/31/2013 12:02:33 AM
I can save you some money if you're thinking about getting Civ 5. Here's how fun and engaging it is to play:

Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn

Wow yay fun! Want to make a settler? Click Next Turn 30 times and do nothing inbetween yay!!

Game is rubbish. Poorly designed. But don't take my word for it. Experience it for yourself. :]
#13FaPaThYPosted 8/31/2013 1:06:22 AM
Mwulf posted...
...okay.

Honestly, I've been playing Strategy games since the first Age of Empires came out, and only started seeing the term 4X pop up recently. I've never really understood what it meant--why it warranted being an explicitly different thing from RTS or TBS.


Same reason terms like MOBA, SRPG, Tower Defense, etc. exist when they're all strategy games. It's a specific sub-genre with its own clear and defined traits. The term 4X has been around for a long time, so I'm not sure how you've only seen it just recently. It's really not hard to see what makes Stars!, MoO, Civ, GalCiv, etc. different from, say, StarCraft or Chess.
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#14TowerBooks3192Posted 8/31/2013 1:29:31 AM
V is a good start since its very approachable while 4 is a whole lot deeper and there are tons of mods. I started with master of orion 2 though because its pretty much straightforward.
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#15RequiemPosted 8/31/2013 1:45:00 AM
It's kind of interesting to see leadership traits/perks/AI in Civ games.

Gandhi is a warmonger. ( >_< )
Lincoln goes great with a slavery based economy. (0_o)
Catherine is the hot sex appeal woman of the game (yes, that Catherine the Great -_- )
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#16ArsenicOverlordPosted 8/31/2013 1:51:42 AM
Ghennkins posted...
I can save you some money if you're thinking about getting Civ 5. Here's how fun and engaging it is to play:

Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn
Click Next Turn

Wow yay fun! Want to make a settler? Click Next Turn 30 times and do nothing inbetween yay!!

Game is rubbish. Poorly designed. But don't take my word for it. Experience it for yourself. :]


I take it the first thing you did with your capital city is to create a settler while your warrior sits garrisoned in the city. Let me be the first one to tell you: you're doing it wrong.
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#17SinfullyvannilaPosted 8/31/2013 9:12:40 AM
Mwulf posted...
...okay.

Honestly, I've been playing Strategy games since the first Age of Empires came out, and only started seeing the term 4X pop up recently. I've never really understood what it meant--why it warranted being an explicitly different thing from RTS or TBS.


4X means eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, eXterminate.

I had honestly never heard it either until it was explicitly used in the later Civ's instruction manuals(I'm pretty certain it's in Civ4's and I believe it's in 3's as well).

It's a TBS game wehere you begin with a city building unit and have to utilize those 4 strategies to succeed.
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Also, Chess is a game of skill much like all gameplay only video games. So it is pretty mindless if you think about it.-mtjormitch
#18jake-sfPosted 8/31/2013 9:21:56 AM
I heard the term 4x while looking for more and more games I like. End result is, anything classed as such is overly complex and annoying. I like things that focus on the fun aspect, but 4x tends to means "so much tedious crap to do" and a very, very slow game.

Its a niche sub genre for a reason (and don't think I'm bashing). I just advise anyone, you know if you like this kind of stuff or not. Don't force yourself. I tried. Its torture. I find any 4x totally impossible to enjoy (which is really annoying, since they seem to be the only strategy games around that aren't "softcore dumbed down strategy games for teens").

Just be careful what you put into it unless you know what you enjoy.
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#19SinfullyvannilaPosted 8/31/2013 9:26:25 AM
TowerBooks3192 posted...
V is a good start since its very approachable while 4 is a whole lot deeper and there are tons of mods. I started with master of orion 2 though because its pretty much straightforward.


Honestly, with BNW, they are pretty comparable with depth. Civ 4's big claim for complexity is that you have to manage happiness on a per-city basis, but once you realized you are supposed to abused Slavery and Monarchy for happiness it becomes very simple indeed. Other than that, the only real thing I can think of is the "health" system

Other than that, the complexity comes mostly from dealing with hidden formulae and crap like that.

Caravan's help a lot with making the early game less of a military rush and World Congress helps a lot making the mid-late stage more interesting. Especially if you happen to drop the ball with mid-game exploration, as it REALLY hurts you if someone else gets to be the first chair right away.

The game isn't perfect though. Tourism needs some rertooling so that it's not completely reliant on getting late-game wonders and making sure you are the highest contributer fo International Games, and Diplomacy Victory is just a joke.
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Also, Chess is a game of skill much like all gameplay only video games. So it is pretty mindless if you think about it.-mtjormitch
#20TowerBooks3192Posted 8/31/2013 10:16:49 AM
Sinfullyvannila posted...
TowerBooks3192 posted...
V is a good start since its very approachable while 4 is a whole lot deeper and there are tons of mods. I started with master of orion 2 though because its pretty much straightforward.


Honestly, with BNW, they are pretty comparable with depth. Civ 4's big claim for complexity is that you have to manage happiness on a per-city basis, but once you realized you are supposed to abused Slavery and Monarchy for happiness it becomes very simple indeed. Other than that, the only real thing I can think of is the "health" system

Other than that, the complexity comes mostly from dealing with hidden formulae and crap like that.

Caravan's help a lot with making the early game less of a military rush and World Congress helps a lot making the mid-late stage more interesting. Especially if you happen to drop the ball with mid-game exploration, as it REALLY hurts you if someone else gets to be the first chair right away.

The game isn't perfect though. Tourism needs some rertooling so that it's not completely reliant on getting late-game wonders and making sure you are the highest contributer fo International Games, and Diplomacy Victory is just a joke.


I can't really say much about the depth of IV and V but from what I remember with IV (didn't get much time with it since when I got it I got a laptop that could barely handle it well and by the time I got a decent laptop back then V was already out). I did forget to take BNW in to consideration but I guess you could say that they are about equal right now in terms of depth however civ V would appear much simpler because of the ease to use UI whereas IV's UI is a bit confusing when you are new to the game.

I have to admit that I have never tried Diplo and Culture Victory but I did come pretty close from becoming influential in one of my unfinished game (Zulu, Egypt and Assyria left) but I have to find a way to culture bomb Zulu to be influential. I could get owned by them in a protracted war but if I sweep in fast maybe I could secure some cities or if I could catch the city that contains most or all of their planes then I could turn the tide.

As for people saying 4x is tedious and boring, I guess I don't blame those people for not liking it. Most 4x really requires you to think especially when you want to get in to the depths of the mechanics like calculating hammers in Civ V or calculating the combat of EUIV. I guess most kids nowadays would prefer to try and destroy everything in their path without thinking of the consequences of their action and that is why they would prefer RTS than 4x.
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