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RNG happyscrub rant "This game is hard! Durrrr!!

#1happyscrub1Posted 9/8/2013 6:18:14 AM
Why do people want to say RNG based games are hard? That's not hard, that's just luck based.

That's like saying the lottery is hard, even though no amount of skill will up your chances of winning. The lottery is in fact easy; You just pick random numbers and call it a day.

So people who say RNG games are hard, need to jump off a cliff after saving, reload, and jump off again.
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#2NingishzidaPosted 9/8/2013 6:39:21 AM
The only "difficulty" is in learning to work the numbers in your favor to increase odds of success.

That's sort of a point in most systems that use RNG (D&D RPGs etc.), you modify the numbers thru your tactics (build, buffs) and therein lies the skill in "beating" adverse randomness.

You can't really do that in most lotteries, though rigging would require some skill and maybe some solid standover tactics.
#3OraclefoxPosted 9/8/2013 6:47:25 AM(edited)
Those people are probably speaking with respect to whatever goal it is they are trying to achieve within the game, not to the RNG itself. RNG can make accomplishing the goal difficult or more difficult.

E.g. I just started up XCOM enemy unknown again (classic mode). For some reason (RNG I suppose you could say), I am very frequently getting soldiers shot in the head behind full cover from a great distance by early game sectoids which is killing them or incapacitating almost every stage or every other stage.

If I go into battle with 4 soldiers, and one of them gets killed or downed, the stage becomes necessarily harder in the sense that it won't be as easy to beat because I have less resources (this is why I prefer games like advance wars which are pretty much non-existant). RNG makes the game unpredictable/random and randomness makes the game hard.

Edit: Also, you're assuming that the RNG is truly random/fair. I don't fully understand the details of this sort of computer programming, but since I used XCOM as an example, I think there was some controversy earlier on where people were claiming there were issues with the RNG. It wasn't truly random or something like that--I'm not sure how accurate that is though.

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#4bkkorpsPosted 9/8/2013 6:52:31 AM
RNG doesnt make games hard, it makes them frustrating. Like playing risk, and that one defender takes out half of your army before you can take the space.
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#5NingishzidaPosted 9/8/2013 6:52:46 AM
Oraclefox posted...
I think there was some controversy earlier on where people were claiming there were issues with the RNG. It wasn't truly random or something like that--I'm not sure how accurate that is though.


computers don't really do random, but Temple of Elemental Evil definitely has noticeably broken RNG.

From a dev:

Our random number generator is a slightly modified version of the Quick and Dirty random number generator described in Numerical Recipes in C. It is a easy to use, reasonable RNG that uses VERY little cpu time. As far as I know it is the same RNG used in Arcanum and maybe other titles.


Last I heard the Co8 team was gonna implement a better RNG as their next big project.
#6Golden_GonadsPosted 9/8/2013 7:00:58 AM
My first go of FTL. First two systems visited, two random encounters, two crewmen lost. Combine that with not having a clue what I was doing, it didn't go well...
#7PolarisPosted 9/8/2013 7:12:42 AM
happyscrub1 posted...
Why do people want to say RNG based games are hard? That's not hard, that's just luck based.

That's like saying the lottery is hard, even though no amount of skill will up your chances of winning.


The existence of random numbers does not make something equivalent to the lottery. That analogy is like saying Poker is the same as the lottery because no amount of skill will up your chances of winning.
#8DarkZV2BetaPosted 9/8/2013 7:17:13 AM
Lots of games lately use essentially broken RNGs,
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#9El_KazPosted 9/8/2013 7:28:19 AM
Rogue-likes are particularly tricky because they do contain a lot of randomness; being "skilled" consist of making the most of what you're dealt with. The game's feedback on your skills isn't very clear as each victory/loss could be either due to skills or just (bad) luck. As a result, many people will just play the same way over and over again without adapting, losing 90%+ of the time and chalking it up to bad luck... until finally the stars align and they're given everything they need to succeed using that approach.
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Wait... what?
#10NingishzidaPosted 9/8/2013 7:30:30 AM
Luck is the residue of design.