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Are the people who say "PC Master Race" being serious?

#61TehPwnzererPosted 9/10/2013 4:10:01 PM
Twinqe posted...
TehPwnzerer posted...
It's objective that console gaming is superior in price..


I'd disagree. A console is more or less dedicated to gaming (perhaps Netflix aside), while a PC is extremely multi-functional. For me, considering the fact that it is possible to build a computer of almost exactly the same specifications as a next gen console for a similar price and also get a machine capable of doing far more than a console, the PC is the better value. I also gamed on a $450 low-end PC for most of the last console generation, playing many titles with similar framerates to consoles, so I think there is definitely room to say that consoles are not objectively superior in price/value.


The fact that consoles are dedicated to gaming is the exact reason WHY console gamers game on console. They don't need or want the multi-functionality of a PC because chances are, they already have one or can get by with a smartphone. And couple that with the fact that the PS3 offers some of the best exclusive games of any gaming device, makes the cheaper console with a guaranteed 7 year run, AND some of the best games they can play, that they can't find on a $1000 rig, makes the decision very easy.
#62TehPwnzererPosted 9/10/2013 4:14:15 PM
Snuckie7 posted...
TehPwnzerer posted...
Snuckie7 posted...
TehPwnzerer posted...
Snuckie7 posted...
Except everything I just listed is indisputably objective. Whether that matters to you or not is a different argument, but either outcome does not refute the original point.

For instance, higher framerates will never be worse than lower framerates whether you care about it or not.


But as I just said, the lower price of the console for a guaranteed 7 years of gaming without having to upgrade, and having all games that come out on it optimized for that console, mitigates the technical advantages of PC gaming. It's objective that PC gaming is superior in performance. It's objective that console gaming is superior in price. But it's subjective that either one make the other better. You're not going to convince console gamers that PC gaming is better just because of the way it performs. To them, gaming is something you do on consoles. It's a toy. It's not something you do on a computer designed for web-browsing, facebooking and productivity. We're talking about two completely different demographics here.


Consoles being cheaper than PCs doesn't make them better. It makes them cheaper.

Also, you'd be quite incorrect in thinking console gamers don't care about graphics. From what I've seen, they are bigger graphics whores than PC gamers.


To broke college students and people that don't have time to game as frequently as you do, cheaper = better. I don't know how else to say it. You seem to think that because you get better performance out of PC gaming that it's universally better across the board, which is completely ridiculous. Why is a mansion a better purchase than a reasonable sized middle class house? I don't need all that space and it's just going to put me in a higher debt brackett. If I can live comfortably in a middle class house, why shouldn't I?


But yet, when you're trying to argue that a small house is better than a mansion, the price is irrelevant because you're comparing different things. Better things tend to cost more, if you were not aware.

Now if you happen to be in the demographic of poor people, you can, shockingly, build a cheap PC, and save more money on games while you're at it too.


Actually the price is very much relevant. I don't understand how you could dismiss what I said. A mansion is a luxury, just like a gaming PC is a luxury. They're "better" because they're more luxurious, but not everyone will agree that a mansion is a great investment, just as they won't agree that a gaming rig is a good investment. A mansion is an over glorified house. A gaming PC is an over glorified gaming system.
#63Snuckie7Posted 9/10/2013 4:17:41 PM
So you admit that gaming PCs are inherently better. Not sure where investments came anywhere in this, but this was the original point we were responding to in case you forgot.


TehPwnzerer posted...
Last Grand MageX2 posted...
It's one of those jokes thats only funny because it's true. PC gaming is better, there's basically no solid argument for why consoles are inherently better.

With that said, without consoles, gaming wouldn't have the mainstream appeal that it does. Without the mainstream appeal, it wouldn't be as profitable an industry. Without the profit, there wouldn't be AAA titles.

You can't have a master race without peasants.


There are plenty of arguments made by console gamers that have refuted PC gaming time and time again, the problem is that PC gamers insist they are wrong. It's like arguing with a radical Muslim that their religion might not be the best one.

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#64TehPwnzererPosted 9/10/2013 4:20:39 PM
Snuckie7 posted...
So you admit that gaming PCs are inherently better. Not sure where investments came anywhere in this, but this was the original point we were responding to in case you forgot.


TehPwnzerer posted...
Last Grand MageX2 posted...
It's one of those jokes thats only funny because it's true. PC gaming is better, there's basically no solid argument for why consoles are inherently better.

With that said, without consoles, gaming wouldn't have the mainstream appeal that it does. Without the mainstream appeal, it wouldn't be as profitable an industry. Without the profit, there wouldn't be AAA titles.

You can't have a master race without peasants.


There are plenty of arguments made by console gamers that have refuted PC gaming time and time again, the problem is that PC gamers insist they are wrong. It's like arguing with a radical Muslim that their religion might not be the best one.


I don't understand how the quote of mine that you used has anything to do with me saying that PC gaming is inherently better.
#65Snuckie7Posted 9/10/2013 4:21:26 PM
They're "better" because they're more luxurious

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#66TehPwnzererPosted 9/10/2013 4:24:23 PM
Snuckie7 posted...
They're "better" because they're more luxurious


I used better in quotations to refer to your assertion that "better things cost more". No, I don't think PC gaming is inherently "better", I just think it's more luxurious.
#67DarkZV2BetaPosted 9/10/2013 4:26:47 PM
Is this some sort of peasant riot?
What a bunch of unruly ingrates.
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#68Snuckie7Posted 9/10/2013 4:26:57 PM
And now we're back to the whole luxury > no luxury debate.

For instance, higher framerates will never be worse than lower framerates whether you care about it or not.

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#69KillerTrufflePosted 9/10/2013 4:27:14 PM
TehPwnzerer posted...
Snuckie7 posted...
Except everything I just listed is indisputably objective. Whether that matters to you or not is a different argument, but either outcome does not refute the original point.

For instance, higher framerates will never be worse than lower framerates whether you care about it or not.


But as I just said, the lower price of the console for a guaranteed 7 years of gaming without having to upgrade, and having all games that come out on it optimized for that console, mitigates the technical advantages of PC gaming. It's objective that PC gaming is superior in performance. It's objective that console gaming is superior in price. But it's subjective that either one make the other better. You're not going to convince console gamers that PC gaming is better just because of the way it performs. To them, gaming is something you do on consoles. It's a toy. It's not something you do on a computer designed for web-browsing, facebooking and productivity. We're talking about two completely different demographics here.


Console - say $300. Moderate gaming PC - $800.

7 years of games: console - maybe $40/piece on average, between new games, sales, used. PC - maybe $15/piece on average between new, sales (MUCH deeper and more frequent), and indie.

Figure a conservative average of 1 game a month... for 7 years, that's $3360 for console games, $1260 for PC games. Difference of $2100.

Factor back in the original entry costs - $3360 + $300 = $3660 for console. $1260 + $800 = $2060 for PC. Difference of $1600.

Now figure upgrade GPU on the PC every 2 years, keeping WELL ahead of the consoles in terms of detail... say $250 every 2 years for a great gaming card. In those 7 years, you'll buy 3 replacement cards (most people don't do this, but just for the sake of overkill argument). That's an extra $750 onto the cost of PC.

And let's throw in a CPU upgrade - another couple hundred.

End result:

7-year cost of console: $3660
7-year cost of PC: $3010

Even with GPU upgrades bordering on obsessive, PC turns out to be $650 cheaper over that 7-year period, and it STILL plays games at higher resolution, lots of AA, much higher detail settings, more control options, and more flexibility overall. And it has a larger library of exclusives than all consoles put together, better backward compatibility so great games are not lost, and more. And thanks to game prices and sales console gamers can only dream of, in the long term, PC gaming IS cheaper.

So yes, from an objective standpoint, PC gaming is better.

The one argument console gamers have going for them is purely subjective - if a console has exclusives they want to play, then it makes sense to get that console for those exclusives. But that applies exactly in reverse. Just because YOU don't care about the hundreds of PC exclusives doesn't mean no one does. Just because YOU don't like RTS doesn't mean others don't (RTS has actually been found to improve brain function, by the way, so RTS gamers might be getting smarter - something people who hate RTS are missing out on).

Having exclusives that the gamer wants to play is really the *only* valid argument console gamers have any more.
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#70TwinqePosted 9/10/2013 4:30:39 PM(edited)
TehPwnzerer posted...
Twinqe posted...
TehPwnzerer posted...
It's objective that console gaming is superior in price..


I'd disagree. A console is more or less dedicated to gaming (perhaps Netflix aside), while a PC is extremely multi-functional. For me, considering the fact that it is possible to build a computer of almost exactly the same specifications as a next gen console for a similar price and also get a machine capable of doing far more than a console, the PC is the better value. I also gamed on a $450 low-end PC for most of the last console generation, playing many titles with similar framerates to consoles, so I think there is definitely room to say that consoles are not objectively superior in price/value.


The fact that consoles are dedicated to gaming is the exact reason WHY console gamers game on console. They don't need or want the multi-functionality of a PC because chances are, they already have one or can get by with a smartphone. And couple that with the fact that the PS3 offers some of the best exclusive games of any gaming device, makes the cheaper console with a guaranteed 7 year run, AND some of the best games they can play, that they can't find on a $1000 rig, makes the decision very easy.


I never said that I disagreed with any of that. You said that console gaming is objectively superior in price, and I provided two reasons why I disagreed with that:

1) The PC, while perhaps more expensive, could be seen as having a higher relative value because it does more than just gaming

2) It is possible to buy a PC for a price similar to that of a console and still play most games at a similar quality to consoles

You can't talk about objectivity and then assume things about the consumer - namely that they already have a PC, or a smartphone, or that their needs are met by just a phone. Furthermore, you stated many things which I flat out disagree with as a console gamer. I don't think it's a good idea to make umbrella statements about 'console gamers' because there are several reasons why you'd buy a console and it can't all be summed up by anyone. In my own experience, when buying a console, I never looked at it against buying myself a PC. None of the advantages you listed went into my decision. So, let's not simplify it.
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